God and Energy (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell , Wednesday, June 04, 2014, 16:17 (3613 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: It's a pity Strassler doesn't call them elementary energy particles, as you do (does energy decay?), and I wish I could find a general consensus on the existence of "pure energy". ..... It's now clear to me, however, why the experiment is so important: "pure energy" creating matter is a theory and not a fact ... which is what I wanted to know.-To clear your mind, go back to the last century when "atom smashers" pounded matter and found the particles Strassler describes. By theory they had to be there and they were, but the strange variety and the families could not be predicted, simply discovered. Why they are like they are and grouped the way they are is unknown. They simply ARE. And they are energy particles. E=mc^2 is the formula that tells you that. Matter contains as much energy as mass times the square of the speed of light!-> dhw: It has always been your contention that First Cause is self-aware energy, which created all the matter of the universe. I've gone along with energy as First Cause, but not necessarily self-aware.-A reasonable difference knowing your agnosticism ->dhw: Meanwhile, let's adopt your theory, and assume that "pure energy" (your God) consciously created matter. In that case, all the processes you're outlining have to be those used by your God to create the universe, and he has to BE all the so-called pure energy particles you refer to, unless you're saying his pure energy is different from that which he used to form our universe. I don't know why you should see it as a problem, since it fits in perfectly well with your panentheism. But instead you say: "No one can know if an eternal intelligence has a recognizable form or structure." How can you separate your first cause intelligence from your first cause energy? I'll wait for your response before going any further.-I've left your whole thought. Simply we think differently. You always seek exactitide. I accept an always existing energy as a first cause, and I think it must be intelligent because of the complexities that we see created by it. And I stop there. I cannot imagine how it works, and I don't worry about it. Simply, slopilly organized energy couldn't possibly create what we have. There was probably some type of quantum energy organization we don't understand, just as we don't understand consciousness. That is my challenge to you. Explain consciousness. You are asking me a question at the same level.