Religion: pros & cons (Religion)

by dhw, Thursday, September 18, 2014, 18:15 (3500 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained
edited by dhw, Thursday, September 18, 2014, 19:15

TONY: Why should I believe in God, or Christ, or angels, but not the other spirit creatures mentioned? [...] You see no reason to believe in Satan, and considering that you do not believe (nor disbelieve) in God, that is not surprising at all. However, if you do believe in God, the reality of Satan is abundantly clear.-I'm afraid this is where we part company. My rejection of atheism rests mainly on the fact that I cannot swallow the atheist line of chance as the originator of complexities way beyond the grasp of our most gifted scientists. There are other factors, but they are connected with the equal mysteries of consciousness, love, music and other profound experiences which I find impossible to explain in material terms. My potential belief in God would certainly not include a belief in Satan, but that is because the Bible plays very little part in my thinking. 
 
In some ways, my approach to the Bible is very like yours to scientists who believe a theory you find dubious. Discounting the rogue scientists, as we should also discount the rogue priests, there are countless genuine seekers after truth who believe that the evidence is sufficient to accept evolution just as you accept separate creation, the personal love of God, and the existence of Satan. And just as you are not prepared to accept the word of scientists without definitive evidence, I am not prepared to accept the word of people I know nothing about but who claim to know things they can't possibly know. Many of the books are written as third person narratives, by an omniscient narrator. In the terrifying, heartrending, ultimately sanctimonious Book of Job, for instance, how the heck does the narrator know what God and Satan said to each other? These are texts by fallible humans, strung together by other fallible humans (with their own agendas) centuries later, containing stories unwitnessed (even the gospels were written decades after the events), and texts unreliably translated, edited, and open to all kinds of interpretations - e.g. to justify war, murder, slavery, apartheid, persecution, and dammit even to forbid me to marry the girl I loved. (But I married her all the same.) As for Satan himself, well, the reality of evil is abundantly clear, but I can't think of him as anything but a metaphor.
 
TONY: While the bible was indeed penned by man, I do believe it to be inspired, which is in fact all that the bible itself claims. 2 Tim 3:13. -I must prove to you that I have the Bible close at hand! I presume you mean 2 Tim 3:16! “All scripture is given by inspiration of God.” But it's not the Bible let alone God claiming this, it's a man called Paul. And when Paul goes on to say that it's “profitable...for instruction in righteousness”, does he realize that it's only profitable if people interpret it according to his own standards of righteousness? I reckon I'm better off working out my own standards than, for example, obeying some of the precepts in Deuteronomy! And if I'd lived in Spain about six hundred years ago, I'd have been burned at the stake while Torquemada quoted scripture at me. However, the Bible inspires good people like yourself to do good deeds, and it brings comfort and hope to those who have faith. In the light of my own ignorance I respect your beliefs and theirs, so long as they do no harm. I just don't have such faith. I hope none of these comments are offensive to you.