Panpsychism Makes a Comeback (General)

by David Turell , Wednesday, January 28, 2015, 22:15 (3372 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: So the worm brain, bird brain, chimp brain also had to be specially preprogrammed or dabbled. But the human brain was extraspecially preprogrammed or dabbled, because although the worm, bird and chimp are special, humans are extraspecial. And the weaverbird's nest was also far too special for the weaverbird to design. Or at least half of it was. We're going backwards again.-Remember I don't belive in itty-bitty. Those jumps are big enough to req
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> DAVID: Your idea of cogitating cells is beyond my reasoning to imagine. The informational background for planning is too large. Information cannot be invented unless mental activity is at work. 
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> And yet your imagination can conceive of cogitating energy that already has all the information even before the information has come into existence. 
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> dhw: Why “an” intellect? Why not the billions of intellects or intelligences contained within the billions of organisms that extend from bacteria to humans? 
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> DAVID: And where did all those intellects/brains come from? In evolution there has to be a first intellect/brain for the rest to evolve from. 
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> I agree that there has to be a first intellect (or first intellects) for the rest to evolve from. Your hypothesis is a first intellect that comes from nowhere but knows everything, and mine is basic awarenesses evolving from ever changing materials into ever greater complexity through multiple experiences - or through an accumulation of information, if you prefer it.
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> dhw: I am stubborn in my appeal for open-mindedness, whereas you are stubborn in your defence of your opinions, regardless of the dilemmas they cause you!
> DAVID: You view them as dilemmas because you won't accept my reasoning. My only true dilemma is not problem, just an open question.
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> Your reasoning seems to me to be dislocated: the purpose of evolution is humans; in order to achieve humans, God created a colossal variety of organisms which have nothing to do with humans, and most of which died out anyway; God preprogrammed or separately created every innovation and strange lifestyle, whether it was relevant to humans or not, because it was necessary for the balance of nature, although nature would not have been unbalanced without many of the innovations and strange lifestyles; we don't know how much control God had over environmental changes and apparent accidents, but humans would have appeared anyway because God had it all under control; we don't know how God guided evolution from bacteria to humans, but it was either through preprogramming or dabbling, and it can't have been by giving organisms the wherewithal to innovate because somehow you know that organisms don't have the wherewithal to innovate. However, I'm sure it all makes sense to you.