Current science; fraudulent thinking (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, May 18, 2015, 22:34 (3265 days ago) @ David Turell

Dhw: I pointed out that the items you put in bold substituted one circular fallacy for another. May I assume you agree?-DAVID: I do bold at times to stir discussion, bring out the author's viewpoint, and in this case I agree with his overall points.-So do I. And I hereby give up trying to get you to admit that substituting one circular fallacy for another is not a good idea.-dhw:You have split my sentence. I see no reason to believe that space, time, energy and matter did not exist before the Big Bang.
DAVID: This statement of yours is totally opposite to current philosophic and scientific belief. Space and time began with the Big Bang, and were created by it. Energy/matter in my view had to pre-exist it timelessly or there have been a series of Big Bangs.-Even if the Big Bang happened (it is a theory, not a fact), the moment you argue that something pre-existed it, you are embracing that concept of time which entails a progression from before to now to after, from past to present to future, from cause to effect to cause to effect etc. By hopefully shoving in the word “timelessly” you are glossing over the problem, especially since the word “timeless” is often used to denote independent of the passage of time. (Beethoven's music is said to be timeless). Since we do not and cannot know what happened before the Big Bang, any definitive statement such as space and time did not exist before it, is clearly pure speculation