Darwin & Wallace (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 19:11 (3114 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: ALL innovations, lifestyles, natural wonders etc., including the weaverbird's nest, from bacteria onwards were therefore not required by the challenges of nature.
DAVID: Then why did it happen? Chance or underlying drive for complexity. 'Drive' appears most likely. Where did that come from? Again chance seems very unlikely. This is why I see purpose.-As always, you pointed out that the challenges of nature did not require humans, and as always I pointed out that the challenges of nature did not require the weaverbird's nest either, since bacteria did not NEED to evolve into other organisms. You now switch back to chance, which we both dismiss, and to the drive for complexity, which we both accept. The purpose of this, you say, is to maintain the balance of nature, which is critical. -dhw: Balance in nature is critical for what? 
DAVID: Survival. Everyone has to eat.-Let me get this straight. You “can't see any other purpose than humans. Nothing else makes sense.” So God designed every innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder from bacteria onwards to ensure that the balance of nature would enable humans to be produced and to eat. However, prior to the arrival of humans he continually changed the balance of nature (extinctions) so that millions of these innovations, lifestyles and wonders would be eliminated, even though he only designed them to enable humans to be produced and to eat. Furthermore, we don't know how much control he had over the environment, which is a key factor in the balance of nature, although the balance of nature was and is essential for his one and only purpose of producing and feeding humans. And it is “silly” to try and read God's mind, but you have read his mind because his intention in designing all the innovations, lifestyles and wonders, extant and extinct, could only have been to produce/feed humans. -I'm glad the above makes sense to you. Try this for a theistic hypothesis: God created an autonomous inventive mechanism which would allow cells to produce a vast variety of life forms in their quest for survival and/or improvement. Changes in the environment allowed for a continual stream of extinctions and innovations. Different forms of life dominated at different times. Currently the dominant form - if one discounts bacteria, which have survived from the earliest days - is humans, whose intelligence far exceeds that of all other known species. We have no idea what might happen during the next few billion years. It is “silly” to try and read God's mind, so we cannot know why he created the autonomous mechanism in the first place. Does that make sense or not?