Teleology & Neo-thomism (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, October 14, 2015, 12:02 (3123 days ago) @ David Turell
edited by dhw, Wednesday, October 14, 2015, 12:33

DAVID: A good philosophic discussion of the onboard teleology of living organisms and how ID and neo-Thomism are not that far apart:
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/is-id-about-internal-or-external-tele... -He raises two interesting points that seem relevant to two of the topics we have been discussing:-QUOTE: “...when an IDer notes that some characteristics of organisms can be described by mechanics, informatics, thermodynamics, control theory, etc. he is not saying that organisms are machines. To describe some properties of an entity in mechanical (or more generally in scientific) terms and to say the entity is only a machine are two different things.”-Excellent observation. A bacterium is an organism. You may spend as long as you like describing its characteristics in mechanical terms, but that does not make it a machine. Some eminent biologists also believe that every component of a multicellular organism is an organism in its own right.
 
Quote: "Neither is ID a form of deism. The Designer need not be anthropomorphic, a watchmaker who constructs a watch with hands and tool, puts it on a shelf, and then goes home. The universe is not at all external to its Designer (it is an effect in principle contained inside its cause). So the relation between the Designer and the universe cannot be seen mechanistically, as the relation between a watchmaker and a watch (external teleology). On the contrary, the universe can be considered as an idea/project in the “mind” of God (internal teleology)."-The fact that the designer “need not be anthropomorphic” is far from saying that he IS not anthropomorphic. “Cannot be considered mechanistically” excludes external teleology, but on what authority does the author claim that the universe is "inside" its cause, or is "in" the mind of God? I do wish people would confine Intelligent Design to intelligent design instead of adding their own particular metaphysical and religious slant on it. However, this poses a problem as regards free will. If you (not just you personally, but anyone) believe that God has given you the wherewithal to take your own decisions independently of your being contained within him, then you will have to grant that it is perfectly possible for him to give the same independence to the rest of the universe, i.e. that he can exclude himself if he wants to, and leave the world to run its own course. ID may not in itself be a form of deism, but it allows for deism and it allows for anthropomorphism.