Weird animal forms (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, May 19, 2016, 13:01 (2892 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: As always we can only speculate, but if there is a problem which needs to be solved, the solution is an improvement! Whales started as land mammals, so maybe where their ancestors lived, food was more abundant in the water. Every subsequent stage in their evolution may have resulted from different adjustments to aquatic conditions.
DAVID: Your flights of fanciful explanations are wonderful just-so stories. Were pre-whales so isolated they couldn't migrate to find land food. They were trapped on an island! Or maybe you'll tell me they liked swimming so much they just decided to stay in the water and self-invent all their complex physiologic adaptations. Phew!

I am not alone in my flights of fancy. A quick Google brings up the following:-	Whale Evolution - How Whales Work | HowStuffWorks
 animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/whale1.htm-QUOTE: “Why would a land mammal, specifically adapted for life on solid ground, evolve into a sea creature, spending much of its time away from air and sunlight? The best guess is that the whale's ancestors simply went where the food was. The ocean is filled with a wide variety of fish and crustaceans, while food along the coast can be scarce. Most likely, whale ancestors first ventured into the water to take advantage of this bounty.” -dhw: I really can't believe that organisms would decide to become more complex just for the sake of complexity. 
DAVID: Remember the organism are given a complexification mechanism which makes them more complex. It is NOT under their control per my thesis.-So your explanation for land mammals taking to the oceans is…God took control and made them go into the water because...he wanted to make them more complex. Why? Your previous explanation has been in order to balance nature so that humans could arrive and be fed. But there is a new one coming up a bit later. First, let's turn to the giraffehw: Is it not possible that in a particular region at a particular time, food became scarce and it was advantageous to reach higher? 
DAVID: What happened to the ability to move and migrate. How long do you think it took for the neck to elongate out of need? Were they trapped with only tall trees around?-As usual, you ask me to solve a mystery nobody else has solved. The ability to get to food is one theory. Let's deal with the sex theory next: -Dhw: ...why on earth would the males evolve long necks just in order to fight one another? 
DAVID: You skipped the point that their skull bones are thicker. This suggests the change is purposeful.-If the pre-giraffes fought to get mates, and the longer neck made the skull more vulnerable, either the cell communities would make the necessary changes or the giraffes would smash each other's heads in. Whenever there is a change, the rest of the body's cell communities must cooperate to incorporate the change. Now let's get to your own thesis:-dhw: If it's that disadvantageous and dangerous, why do you think the phenotype complexification mechanism bothered to invent it in the first place?-DAVID: Just for the sake of complexity, for the purpose of complexity, from which the most advantageous will then fight to survive. It is a drive to complexity (my first book). It is an extension of the structuralism theory.-So God, who is in control, deliberately “guides” all these different organisms like giraffes and whales just so that they can be more complex and fight it out among themselves to see whose complexities will survive. Apart from God's control, this is Darwin's natural selection and survival of the fittest. Next:-dhw: Even with your anthropocentric interpretation of evolution, what possible advantage can it be to humans to have pre-giraffes reorganizing themselves so they can have long necks?
DAVID: Why relate the two events? I don't. why not look at the odd-ball species as aberrant attempts at complexity which really are side channels to evolution, resulting in the weird bush of life.-Whenever I have asked you to explain the reason for the bush, it has been the balance of nature, to pave the way for God's purpose of producing and feeding humans. If you stand by that, then my question is fair. If you've given up on that thesis, in favour of complexity for its own sake, so organisms can fight it out in a Darwinian free-for-all for survival, I shan't complain. But are you really saying now that God, who according to you is in control, makes aberrant attempts? Why are they aberrant? Why are they side channels? Aberrant and side from what? Why can't they exist in their own right? The weird bush of life is very simply explained if one allows for organisms pursuing their OWN paths to survival and/or improvement.
 
DAVID: Look at it from structuralism theory... I think Denton is on to something.

I'm afraid I don't understand how Denton's structuralism, with its "natural laws" and patterns, explains why pre-whales took to water and the pre-giraffe grew a long neck.