Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning Part One (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, May 05, 2021, 19:03 (1087 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I don’t know what you mean by “taking excess neurons with it”. The brain shrunk 150 cc BECAUSE complexification (“tailoring”) made certain cells unnecessary. Your last sentence simply means that anyone with a crystal ball would have been able to forecast that hundreds of thousands of years later, certain hitherto essential cells would no longer be necessary.

You can couch it in any terms you wish but excess cells were on board the moment sapiens big brain arrived.

DAVID: You have forgotten only the hippocampus has the ability to add new neurons. And I view God has the lone ability to enlarge whole brains in new species.

dhw: The hippocampus example tells us that even now the brain is capable of adding new neurons in response to new requirements, and so there is no reason to assume that it did not do precisely that in the past.

All you can logically propose is previous brains could enlarge the hippocampus, but you want to stretch what we know.

dhw: This has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we do not know which sapiens cells became redundant as a result of enhanced complexification, and so it is absurd to say that what were new cells at the beginning became unnecessary later.

New or not, some excess cells were discarded. Keep straining to ignore an excess.

DAVID: So what happened to the missing 150 cc ???

dhw: You know what happened to them – they “went missing”!!! But you don’t know which cells became unnecessary as a result of enhanced complexification, and so it is absurd to claim that your God deliberately popped in, and deposited an extra 150cc worth of cells in the brains of a few Moroccans, and then exactly the same 150cc went missing 250,000 years later. In any case, you have agreed that the new cells must have been useful, in which case they can’t have been “excess”.

It is of no matter which cells were discarded. The brain ended up with an excess. The bold is your absurd interpretation. We cannot know which cells and it is of no matter as you struggle with my clear concept God added extra cells so we could tailor our brain to our free-willed new uses.

DAVID: Do you think early sapiens discussed general relativity theory?

dhw: Most modern sapiens can’t discuss general relativity theory! Why do you think anything less than general relativity constitutes “zilch”? All generations build on the “thoughts” of their ancestors. How do you know that no early sapiens ever wondered how we got here?

e know earlier sapiens had lots of Gods to cover all natural phenomena.

DAVID: The original cells of sapiens new brain complexified by a God-given mechanism as they learned to use their new big brain. That is the "concept of cells RESPONDING to new requirements (as demonstrated in the modern brain)". We are in full agreement here.

dhw:... Your comment is far from clear, but you appear to have accepted that the mechanism would have functioned by RESPONDING to new requirements, as demonstrated in the modern brain (and in contrast to your God performing operations in ANTICIPATION of new requirements). In that case, we are indeed in full agreement. And if cells were/are capable of autonomously making their own decisions both then and now, there is no reason at all to dismiss the possibility that they were given the same ability right from the start of life. Obviously still a theory, but can you fault the logic?

I've agreed in the past that earlier brains might well have had complexification mechanisms.

DAVID: I don't accept your theory. God speciates is my belief. Please note our current brain can only add hippocampus cells. Other enlargements are rearrangements of existing neurons through complexification for heavy new use.

dhw: Yes, our current brains complexify autonomously, and the hippocampus has expanded autonomously. How does that prove that although (theistic version) your God gave our cells the autonomous awareness of requirements and the ability to make their own decisions, he could not possibly have given earlier cells the same autonomous awareness and ability to make decisions? And do you disagree that autonomous awareness of requirements and autonomous decision-making denote autonomous intelligence?

My belief stands: God is only source of speciation and provided brains with the complexification instructions as information in the neurons' genomes. That provided the necessary automaticity.