More Miscellany (General)

by David Turell , Monday, April 22, 2024, 18:57 (11 days ago) @ dhw

Giant viruses

DAVID: It is your cockamamy view of evolution that is at fault. All species produced were relevant in their time.

dhw: Relevant to what? Certainly not to what you believe to have been your God’s one and only purpose (us and our food), since only 0.1% of them led to us and our food.

Relevant to current ecosystem of the time in evolution. More distortion of Raup. Cleared up in the other thread, remember.

First cause)

DAVID: Faith is not irrational.

A couple of weeks ago, I wrote: “It is YOUR reasoning I am criticizing, not your God’s. Nobody knows God’s reasoning…” You replied:[/i]
DAVID: Welcome to faith which does not need rationality.

dhw: If you can’t find a reason to justify your faith, and your faith does not need rationality, how can you claim that your “faith is not irrational”?

DAVID: From previous: 'Evidence beyond a reasonable doubt' gives it rationality.

dhw: As usual, you are referring to the theory of design and God’s existence, which I acknowledge as being rational, though “beyond a reasonable doubt” goes much too far. You know perfectly well that I am talking about your illogical theories of evolution and theodicy. Stop dodging.

Stop complaining that I made logical choices in thought that lead to faith. Sorry you can't do it. And then you invent the weirdest definition I've ever seen about double standards, with no choices allowed. You have tied yourself into intellectual knots to defend your inability to consider choices!!!

The wild Milky Way center

DAVID: I think it is all by reasoned design.

dhw: But you can’t think of any reason for it. Your opinion is based on irrational faith.

DAVID: WE are the reason!!! But in your mind we are not that important.

dhw: You cannot find any reason why your God would design billions of galaxies and trillions of stars (not to mention millions of irrelevant species) when all he wanted to design was a single system to accommodate us and our food.

God has reasons I am not privy to.

Microbiomes and post-surgical infections

AVID: [..] Not God's fault. Bacteria necessarily live as freely-acting organisms.[/i]

dhw: And yet a couple of weeks ago, you wrote: “What is fair is to blame God for natural disasters: earthquakes, terrible storms, and bugs causing diseases, non-human parts of his creation.” Why are you blaming him, if it’s not for the fact that he knowingly gave bacteria the freedom to infect us as well as help us? And why then would you not blame him if he knowingly gave us the freedom to do evil? [...]

DAVID: God has not stopped humans or bacteria from use of free will. For life free will of molecules of bugs, of humans is required.

dhw: According to you, your all-powerful, all-knowing God gave us and them free will, knowing precisely what we and they would use it for. Why did you “blame” him for the bugs? Why do you not blame him for knowingly allowing rape, murder, the Holocaust, although he must have known as you and I do that it is perfectly possible to lead a non-boring life without anyone committing evil?

The necessary bugs are free to get into trouble. It is the way life has to work.

DAVID: God had to accept tradeoffs to produce life. He created the best form of life He could. We need good skin microbiomes. A slicing scalpel makes no choices, just an instrument of delivery.

dhw: “Had to”…? “best he could…”? Today he’s lost his omnipotence and omniscience. A few days ago he was to blame. Yesterday all of these evils were necessary to provide a challenge and to prevent boredom. Which of your versions are you going to offer us tomorrow?

DAVID: The same God who gives life.

dhw: Which God do you wish for: the omnipotent one who is powerless to prevent evil, the all-good one who is to blame for natural disasters, or the selfless one who creates/allows evil in order to relieve his and our boredom?

Same usual limp distortion. TE subject is human boredom! Stay on point!!

DAVID: Apparently your desired perfection cannot exist.

dhw: “My” desired perfection? It’s YOU who claim he’s perfect, omniscient, omnipotent etc. but had to do this and that – thereby knowingly creating evil – and was powerless to prevent it, though he did his best!

DAVID: All secondary and required effects.

dhw: The Holocaust and the 50 million deaths from ‘flu in 1918 were just secondary and required so that your selfless, omniscient and omnipotent God could relieve his and our boredom. (Please note: Under “Plantinga” you claim that your beliefs are mainstream!)

In theodicy discussions, yes.