Layers of Information (musings) (Evolution)

by Balance_Maintained @, U.S.A., Thursday, December 18, 2014, 15:12 (3388 days ago)

I was reading an article today regarding science against evolution (All About The Journey) and got to thinking about a topic that we have discussed here many times before: information. -Generally, we talk about information in the genetic structure, the blueprints for the various mechanical structures and proteins that make life work, but what about the other layers of information involved? Here is just a few bullet points that I have running through my head at the moment:-


  • Where does the information needed to interpret the genome come from? (The translation software)

  • Where is the three dimensional location data stored, and how? (i.e. How does it know your foot goes down and your head does not wind up stuffed up your rear?[Though that last is questionable for some people..])

  • Where is the translational data needed to turn electrical signals into chemical signals and/or instructions? (i.e. Converting analog/digital firing of neurons into working instructions for triggered biological events)

  • How is that language established on both ends? Do neurons 'know' how to communicate with cells, is there third party translation layer, or do they speak the same language?

  • We know that cells are aware (in a limited sense) of their environment, but how is that awareness translated into usable information?

  • The human body contains at least 61 elements. Is information about what these elements are and how to use them also encoded in the genome?

  • The human body contains millions of bacteria. How do they communicate with our cells, and how is that communication translated?


-There is so much information being passed around. Where does it come from?

--
What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.

Layers of Information (musings)

by David Turell @, Thursday, December 18, 2014, 18:57 (3388 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

Tony: Here is just a few bullet points that I have running through my head at the moment: 
> 
>

  • Where does the information needed to interpret the genome come from? (The translation software)
>
  • Where is the three dimensional location data stored, and how? 
>
  • Where is the translational data needed to turn electrical signals into chemical signals and/or instructions? (i.e. Converting analog/digital firing of neurons into working instructions for triggered biological events)
>
  • How is that language established on both ends? Do neurons 'know' how to communicate with cells, is there third party translation layer, or do they speak the same language?
>
  • We know that cells are aware (in a limited sense) of their environment, but how is that awareness translated into usable information?
>
  • The human body contains at least 61 elements. Is information about what these elements are and how to use them also encoded in the genome?
>
  • The human body contains millions of bacteria. How do they communicate with our cells, and how is that communication translated?
>


> 
> There is so much information being passed around. Where does it come from?-Fabulous list. I keep bugging dhw about information, and now you have broken it down into the integral processes that must be at work. In biology we know that molecules carry on processes they are engineered to perform through organic reactions mediated by enzymes. There are feedback loops to control the amounts of production, but the passage of sensory information is at another totally different level, with the reactions to that sensory info subject to different mediation. This is all at a very high level of complexity, which of course, strongly suggests it must have been designed. It requires information for the design of the process and the handling of information developed as sensed by the cell or organism.

Layers of Information (musings)

by David Turell @, Friday, December 19, 2014, 15:36 (3387 days ago) @ David Turell

Using the concept that information underlies everything derives quantum mechanics in a new paper:-https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/how-quantum-mechanics-derives-from-a-revolutionary-new-theory-of-information-4487489dbb34-" Masane and co go on to show that combining the mathematical formulations of these ideas leads directly to quantum mechanics. Indeed, they show that the only theory that obeys them all is quantum mechanics.-"That's interesting work with profound implications. It gives physicists a set of physically realistic and acceptable ideas on which the theory is based. Chief among these is the idea that information and computation somehow form the bedrock of reality, an idea that has been knocking around in physics for some time now without anybody nailing it.-"The problem with information as a fundamental unit is that physicists have never been sure how to think about information. That's partly because we are surrounded by seemingly different types of information. There are the 0s and 1s of digital code, information in the form of entropy or as the opposite of randomness, genetic information and even the stuff we use for thought and communication."

Layers of Information: Spetner's take

by David Turell @, Thursday, February 04, 2016, 14:45 (2975 days ago) @ David Turell

It must be obvious that the information needed to make an amoeba is much less than the information required for a whale. Spetner's point is that Darwin's theory does not supply an answer, and in fact most adaptive gene changes require a loss of information:-http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/02/information_and102571.html-"Twenty years ago I wrote: "No random mutation has been observed that adds information to the genome." I repeated this in my latest book and the statement still stands. It bothers the Darwinists because it refutes common descent and Darwinian evolution. -"How does one know that a mutation has occurred and how does one know it is random? If two closely related species have similar proteins or DNA, Darwinists assume the differences in the sequences represent random mutations that occurred in the evolutionary divergence of the species. No one knows that those genetic changes were random -- they are simply declared random according to the dogma of the Modern Synthesis (MS). -***-"Random mutations have never been shown theoretically to be able to lead to the kind of evolution assumed to yield common descent. To show that they can do so requires a calculation of the probability of common descent, showing it to be reasonably high, but every attempt to make that calculation has shown the probability to be vanishingly small. The evidence offered for common descent is circumstantial only. There is no observation, for example, of any portion of the long line of the alleged evolutionary steps (i.e., actual births) from fish to amphibia. It is all inference based on circumstantial evidence. To connect circumstantial evidence to the conclusion of common descent requires a theory. There is no theory that predicts common descent and it is therefore a failed concept.-***-"For example, mutations can increase the rate of a biochemical reaction in a circumstance where this would be of benefit to the organism, but this benefit derives from the mutation's having disabled a repressor, allowing a gene to be transcribed without control. Such a mutation cannot contribute to common descent because no matter how many millions of times mutations may disable a repressor they cannot build the information required for common descent. Such a mutation, again, loses information rather than gains it.-"In the last fifty years it has become recognized that if evolution occurs in the sense of common decent, information has to be built up. For a primitive cell to evolve into an elephant, for example, the evolutionary process has to increase the information from that in the cell until an elephant's worth of information has been achieved. There is no theory that can account for such a thing."-Comment: Remember the genome carries the instructions (information) to create an organism from the zygote and then set up and guide the organic chemistry processes that make the organism live.

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