How God works (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, January 17, 2013, 18:34 (4118 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

Dhw: I'm in no position to say what is true and what is not, but I hope you will understand why I find the arguments themselves so deeply unconvincing: quoting religious texts does not provide evidence that those religious texts are true!
TONY: Science can explain only the material world, yet, even YOU know that is not all that exists. Like begets like. If you can experience love, joy, happiness, and sorrow, then simple reason and logic tells you that what ever designed you was aware of those emotions.-I could not have put it better myself, though I have certainly said the same thing many times. Simple reason and logic also tell me that if I really was designed, whatever designed me would be equally "aware" of self-centredness, vanity, greed, sadism. And I really don't see how he could have created such things without already knowing about them from within. I have no doubt you will find a passage in the bible to explain how God can be all good but can create evil (one of the oldest problems of all, never satisfactorily resolved), but I repeat: "quoting religious texts does not provide evidence that those religious texts are true!" I asked you earlier, how do YOU know that God is hurt by the evil and suffering in the world? And I also pointed out that you were quite rightly sceptical of many scientific claims (usually by named and accountable scientists) which cannot be tested against empirical realities. And I asked you why you did not apply the same (agnostic) principles to the claims made in ancient texts by often unknown authors, knowing that these claims (e.g. their reading of God's nature and intentions) cannot be tested against empirical realities. Such statements CANNOT be used as evidence of what you believe in, when what you believe in is what you are told by these statements!-Tony: People have a funny way of coming back around in your life, and if they don't then perhaps it is for the best, even if it sucks. I may disagree with you, David, Bella, George, or any number of others that have come through here, but I greatly value our debates and, even when I get frustrated or flustered, always consider all of you with the highest degree of respect and hopefully, friendship.-DAVID: Agree with you Tony. dhw, those folks were not really alienated so much as frustrated with your logic staying on the pickets. This is one marvelous site for discussion.-I am in a rather vulnerable state at the moment, and I must confess these comments brought a tear to my eye. David and I are used to teasing each other, but I'm aware that my posts to Tony sometimes go very close to the edge of what might be bearable. I can only say that despite my scepticism, I fully share those feelings of respect and friendship.-***-Tony, thank you for posting a summary of the points raised under "A Scientist's Approach..." I'll try to respond tomorrow, as I will to BBella's post about the afterlife.