Brain complexity: baby brains under study (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, March 02, 2018, 12:27 (2246 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I agree that a new born baby is unlikely to have any concepts when it emerges.
DAVID: "Unlikely". There are none at birth.

More and more research is being done on what information babies absorb within the womb (through sound, smell, taste etc., but also through factors such as stress), and how much of their future is already determined by it. I would not like to be as dogmatic as you on the subject.

dhw: Concepts will only arise out information in the form of experience, and in our material world that is provided by the brain. But from the moment the brain begins to provide information, it is the s/s/c that processes the information and in due course – almost immediately – begins to conceptualize. That is the first way in which they “work together”. Within a couple of days there were marked differences between my twin grandsons in their response to my holding them. One was totally placid and stayed in my arms, and the other immediately began to howl, but was pacified when passed back to his mother. This happened repeatedly during several visits. There is no blank slate!
DAVID: Of course there is a blank slate. What you are describing happened several days or weeks after birth. Blank slate at birth.

I think it was two days after the birth when I first visited the hospital, but my daughter-in-law was aware of differences right from the start. You have ignored the agreement we reached earlier on this. See above re pre-natal influences, but in any case you simply cannot argue that 40% of a personality is determined by the genes and then tell us the newborn is a blank slate.

dhw: Here the concept of security clearly gives rise to a material response (howl). Move forward a few months, when the brain has provided a great deal more information, and the second way of "working together" becomes crystal clear (whether you are a dualist or materialist). The babies are being spoonfed. They try to grasp the spoon and feed themselves. Mess everywhere. The new connections have to be established. The brain does NOT make the connections before the baby sees the spoon. The s/s/c makes the effort to implement the concept, and in due course the neurons get the message and make the necessary adjustments – precisely the same process as the illiterate women learning to write, and pre-sapiens learning to make and use the spear. Implementation of the s/s/c’s concept modifies the brain, which has provided the information that gives rise to the concept.

DAVID: You are generally correct. Two things are going on. Appearance of new neurons and connections for no good reason other than developmental embryology going on after birth; and also connections of memory and conceptualization at a simple level.

Of course it’s at a simple level. Pre-sapiens was also at a simple level compared to sapiens, but that doesn’t alter the indisputable fact that concept precedes changes to the brain, which are caused by implementation of the concept. Please bear this in mind when dealing with the post under “Big brain evolution”.