A THEORY OF INTELLIGENCE Part Two (Identity)

by David Turell , Monday, May 14, 2018, 17:33 (2166 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Your sentence "we are a material being whose materials have produced the consciousness of which he himself is composed" proports to claim that God caused our material brain to produce an immaterial consciousness in the same form as His own. This differs little from my thesis, in which I have God giving the consciousness. In my view the soul must interface with specific areas of the brain. In your view each area of the brain contributes to forming the soul, so the relationship of brain to soul is the same interlock I describe.

dhw: You’ve got it! My theory incorporates your thesis by inverting the process, thereby removing all the contradictions I keep pointing out in your arguments (see the post under “Introducing the brain” for several examples). This is how we can reconcile materialism with dualism: yes, materials are the source of the thinking self (materialism), but what they produce is an immaterial self (dualism) as a form of energy which may survive the death of the materials (just as light waves preserve the image of past events) or may not, depending on your faith or lack of faith. I have stuck to the theistic approach that your God designed the “machine” that produces consciousness like his own, because (a) as an agnostic, I regard that as possible, and (b) a theistic approach is the only one you will accept. Clearly an atheist would say that the mechanism put itself together by chance, or that there is a form of panpsychism through which materials gradually but consciously assemble its components. But the focus here should be on the mechanism itself, and I would still like to know of any flaws in the reasoning.

DAVID: I agree we are close. God could certainly have the cells produce our consciousness, rather than simply giving us the mechanism. See the video I've presented today. we live in God's consciousness and my views of quantum mechanics prejudice my views.

dhw: I don’t know how quantum mechanics can be made to support any view regarding the origin or nature of consciousness, the existence or non-existence of an immaterial “soul”, or indeed the existence or non-existence of the conscious immaterial mind you call God. According to the video, nothing is real until and unless we observe it, and presumably even then it disappears once we stop observing it. But that is a minor point in the history of the AgnosticWeb compared to your acceptance that my theory might be true. If so, it resolves all the issues and contradictions we have been discussing on so many threads. (See “Introducing the brain”).

I admit I can see the possibility that either mechanism for the arrival of consciousness is possible, but for me with an open mind, I must recognize the possibility of both. Since I believe in universal consciousness through God, I then must make a choice of which mechanism is most likely. So I side with the possibility that it is given by God to the brain. I note your idea is possible, but based on a material source in that it arises from the brain. I would think it more likely that consciousness exists in the universe and is always immaterial and never arising de novo from material sources.