The Sermon Part 2 (Agnosticism)

by dhw, Monday, July 28, 2008, 12:01 (5744 days ago) @ David Turell

Once again, a joint response to the most recent postings, as they draw various threads together. - Firstly, my sympathy to BBella. I vividly remember the problems associated with ageing parents, though I have moved into pole position myself: the older generation dreads becoming a burden, and the younger has to watch them suffer as well as to juggle priorities. - It all emerges from a painful system that may or may not be part of a master plan. Whichever it is, I think BBella and David are absolutely right: one must find one's own salvation, and provided it does not harm anyone, others should accept it. I also regard that as an argument against Mark's prioritization of the Church. But on the usual other hand of the agnostic, even though the Church has much to answer for, there can be no denying (a) that it has done a great deal of good, and (b) that it fulfils the needs of many people. There has to be a place for all beneficial solutions. - I agree with David that the choice is between design and chance, but I do not have to "choose one or the other". This is where it gets complicated. I believe that the odds against chance are astronomical, but I cannot separate the designer from the design. If God is indifferent, there might just as well not be a God, and so it doesn't matter two hoots whether we were designed or not. Personally, I discount the idea of a malevolent God, because I can't imagine any power taking so much trouble over creation in order to vent his hatred on it, though I can certainly imagine him losing interest. David discounts the dichotomized God as "the usual making a human-like 'person' out of God", whereas I see no reason why the creation should not reflect the nature of its creator, so it's up there with loving and/or indifferent. As for no God at all, even if intellectually I go with design, I can't go emotionally with an unknown force which might not care, might have abandoned us, or might even have died. It would be like asking me to worship a computer. I could worship a loving God with heart and soul ... I have no problem with BBella's or David's or Mark's belief in such a being ... and I could worship a human-like God with mixed feelings of admiration and fear, but I can't just blinker myself to the alternatives. I do not have to choose. I can side with Carl: "The ultimate truths are unknowable by mere humans, and, for me, they all go into a folder labelled 'unknown', and I am completely comfortable with that." That is pure agnosticism. I am not "completely comfortable" with it (although I am a happy and not a tormented soul), and am greatly appreciative of the opportunity to share thoughts and experiences with others who have or have not found solutions. That's what this forum is all about.