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<title>AgnosticWeb.com - The Far East</title>
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<description>An Agnostic&#039;s Brief Guide to the Universe</description>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New take on Ron Wyatt:-http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chariot-wheels.htm-Until we can get those things out of the water (Damn Egyptians!) we won&amp;apos;t know for sure.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4532</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4532</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 02:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>xeno6696</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some interesting articles on that.-<a href="http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=19382">Chariot wheels, or not?</a>-Heh.. damn conspiracy theories.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4530</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4530</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 01:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Ironically, since we have been discussing bible versus nature, Live Science just posted this <a href="http://www.livescience.com/environment/wind-possibly-parted-red-sea-100921.html">article.</a>-It&amp;apos;s kind of interesting you brought up the Red Sea.  -The last I&amp;apos;d heard about that, was that they had strong suggestions that there was a mistranslation of &amp;quot;reed&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; sea.  Apparently there&amp;apos;s a region adjacent to the Red sea that was very very shallow--enough for people to cross.  But marshy enough that chariots couldn&amp;apos;t move.  -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Sea-The lack of archaeological evidence of chariots beneath the Red Sea leads me to put more backing behind the &amp;quot;Reed Sea&amp;quot; hypothesis.  -Alternatively, I also know that low-tide events create &amp;quot;escape routes&amp;quot; as well.  Down near Cabo San Lucas there&amp;apos;s a &amp;quot;lover&amp;apos;s point&amp;quot; you can go to, where you can walk to the area in the evening and then be &amp;quot;trapped&amp;quot; in a cove until the next tide.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4528</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4528</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>xeno6696</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically, since we have been discussing bible versus nature, Live Science just posted this <a href="http://www.livescience.com/environment/wind-possibly-parted-red-sea-100921.html">article.</a></p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4525</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4525</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 20:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an add onto that, while the meteor impact you listed gives us an upper layer, the recorded impacts that didn&amp;apos;t cause a flood would give us a lower boundary.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4524</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4524</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we would need one or more strikes at the same time period that were large enough to cause major geologic instability, but not nuclear winter. One advantage that we have is that there is recent data on volcanic eruptions that might discuss cloud dissipation time etc. So, according to the Genesis, it would have to have ejected enough water vapor via volcanic activity to rain for 40 days, and would also have had to trigger sub-sea volcanic activity. May an index of meteor strikes within areas of active volcano chains could help narrow the field as well. So we would now have three constraints:Time, location, and magnitude. What would also be helpful would be an angle of impact, if that data were available. The angle would directly affect P-wave and S-wave propagation as well as force of impact. One of the hard parts of identifying the geological formations for proving a theory like this is the age of the event. 10k years or so of heat and pressure could be enough to complete erase the lower geological evidence. Surface events are easier to identify in some ways, despite the effects of erosion and human interference, but the best evidence would likely be found in the crustal sedimentary layers which should contain a carbon rich layer from the massive biological destruction such an event would cause.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4523</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4523</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote><p>There are a few small problems with trying to determine that. The first is the S wave and P wave propagation through the crust and mantle. The second is determining the force needed to fracture the substrate under extreme pressure (because you would have to determine that pressure first which is two sided, downward pressure from gravity, and outward pressure from the core, neither of which will be equally distributed.) The next problem would be to determine the time frame. There is contradictions in regards to the age of the meteorites listed, but we could probably thin that down if we had an approximate age.&amp;#13;&amp;#10;&gt; &amp;#13;&amp;#10;&gt; The chicxulub asteroid was 10 kilomters across, but there is no evidence at the time that it caused a huge flood, but lots of volcanic acivity, and loss of the dinosaurs. Your strike would have to be bigger. By how much?-That&amp;apos;s exactly the critical direction I was going:  by determining how big the strike was, we can determine quickly whether or not a meteor strike would be likely--Genesis doesn&amp;apos;t talk about anything like a nuclear winter, so we know that there is an upper bound.  We&amp;apos;ll use Chixulub for that.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4502</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4502</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 02:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>xeno6696</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&amp;apos;t necessarily have to be bigger. If it were a single event, it would either have to be bigger, or strike at a key location, like a fault boundary where the crust is weaker. The same effect could also be caused by a few smaller strikes within a very short time span, such as might happen if our solar system passed through a debris field or earth caught the trailing side of a larger comet. There are theories out there that such an event occured. However, two more problems presented themselves during the limited time I had to research today. First is dating meteor strikes, the second is the acknowledged fact that many more strikes have happened than we know of, the majority of which are suspected to have occured in the oceans which make them even more difficult to find. Google earth does show some strange anomalies on the sea bed, but I am hesitant to try to differentiate between volcanic and meteoric formations based soley off satelite imagery. -A little OT but still relevant.-Proterzoic <a href="http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/31/5/459.abstract">&amp;quot;Snowball&amp;quot;</a>-<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26445/">more</a>-<a href="http://www.earlham.edu/~reedal/snowball.htm">and more</a>-I thought it was interesting in the last link that they flat out state that the earth has a method of preventing this from occuring. There are contentions about this theory, namely that deep mantle waters such as those produced by volcanic action produce the same type of sedimentary layers.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4501</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4501</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 01:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There are a few small problems with trying to determine that. The first is the S wave and P wave propagation through the crust and mantle. The second is determining the force needed to fracture the substrate under extreme pressure (because you would have to determine that pressure first which is two sided, downward pressure from gravity, and outward pressure from the core, neither of which will be equally distributed.) The next problem would be to determine the time frame. There is contradictions in regards to the age of the meteorites listed, but we could probably thin that down if we had an approximate age.-The chicxulub asteroid was 10 kilomters across, but there is no evidence at the time that it caused a huge flood, but lots of volcanic acivity, and loss of the dinosaurs. Your strike would have to be bigger. By how much?</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4500</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4500</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 01:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>David Turell</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a few small problems with trying to determine that. The first is the S wave and P wave propagation through the crust and mantle. The second is determining the force needed to fracture the substrate under extreme pressure (because you would have to determine that pressure first which is two sided, downward pressure from gravity, and outward pressure from the core, neither of which will be equally distributed.) The next problem would be to determine the time frame. There is contradictions in regards to the age of the meteorites listed, but we could probably thin that down if we had an approximate age.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4499</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4499</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You are most likely correct there, as far water not reaching the top of mount Everest. However, this is not as discouraging to me as you might think. I think, from a skeptical perspective we could say that a global flood could happen, but it would not reach the top of Mount Everest. That would leave two avenues of research for me, one for a trigger, most likely meteoric, the other geological evidence of such a major event. The only trouble with evidence is that Geology has just as many interpretations as the bible LOL. Going to do so more digging, then I&amp;apos;ll step up to the plate and lob more balls at you and see if you can deflect them. :)-I know that we could do a force calculation--with some numbers about the kind of force it takes to force water out of perovskite, and we could scale that up to find the mass of the meteorite that would have had to hit the earth.  -I think a <em>world flood</em> would be possible from a meteor strike event--one that would have flooded all the low-lying areas as seawater plunged up the riverbeds. This would have again--flooded the majority of civilizations at the time.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4498</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4498</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>xeno6696</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Likewise, a spirited debate is worth its weight in gold to me. Such a refreshing change from the norm of non-thinking people I normally deal with.-Before I came to this site I was incredibly insulted by a guy in alt.atheism named Michael Gray.  He claimed he was a physicist;  but the guy immediately read everything I wrote as tripe (as if being critical of what we <em>really</em> know is bad.)  And he went rapidly for ad hominem... -I found this site and never once have I seen this happen.  I&amp;apos;m very happy to have you here!</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4496</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4496</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>xeno6696</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going back to the debate, I was about to mention that it would take a pretty big meteor strike to knock that water out... and then yeah, you sealed the deal there.  -I&amp;apos;m still <em>extremely </em> skeptical on the grounds of the water going through subduction again so quickly (at least in the timeline given in the Bible) but I was working towards the obvious conclusion that the force that would knock that water loose couldn&amp;apos;t come from within earth.  -But as to why Genesis didn&amp;apos;t mention something that suggested a meteor strike, again it has me wearing my incredulous cap.  Have you read the &amp;quot;Book of Jubilees?&amp;quot;  It&amp;apos;s apocryphal and is also called &amp;quot;The Little Genesis.&amp;quot;  I never paid much attention to the world-creation part at the time I read it--I was mining it for material on &amp;quot;The Watchers.&amp;quot;  But it might be another source for you to look at.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4495</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4495</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>xeno6696</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There ya go! There is also a nice little Bistro on Broadway. Would have to ask my wife the name of it. I can never remember. I&amp;apos;ll drop a line when I am back in town (sometime next month).</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4493</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4493</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>By the way, I live in San Antonio... will have to get together for a beer sometime ;)-Perhaps at Little Rhein or Me Tierras? Perhaps Dick&amp;apos;s on the river walk?</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4490</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4490</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>David Turell</dc:creator>
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<title>ZPE-Plasma model (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZPE-Plasma model of the Universe-While I note that this guys is an obvious biblical creationist, I also note that his research is quite thorough, and the model does make more sense than dark matte and quantum fluctuations spontaneously generating the universe. Just for shits and giggles, give it a read and, if you feel it is necessary, feel free to do as I did and ignore all references made to creation, and focus solely on the physics and the evidence provided. -I am still reading the the reference material that he uses to support his claim, and reading over his responses to criticism and what not. I know I have mentioned <a href="http://www.setterfield.org/ZPE-Plasma_model.html">Setterfield&amp;apos;s research</a> before, but, hey, if the shoe fits...</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4486</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4486</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I live in San Antonio... will have to get together for a beer sometime ;)</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4483</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4483</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lay person is still under the impression that when we say oil &amp;apos;resevoir&amp;apos; we are talking about a huge gaping cavernous hole in the earth. They don&amp;apos;t understand that, like the water model we were discussing, there is only rock there, and the oil is trapped inside these rocks, and we have to crack them open to get anything out.</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4482</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4482</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I work in the oil patch, for a geophysical exploration company. Currently, I am on the MV Conti off the coast of Norway about 60 miles west of the fjords near Bergen. Been working in geophysics nor for about the last 5 years.-As a Houstonian, in my medical pratice I knew many oil patch patients. One was a petroleum geologist who looked at Phillips seismics deep in the Gulf 25 years ago and predicted the elephants now being tapped, when and where allowed. And the NY Times today is surprised that BP is going to retap the reservoir of its failed well, as if that salt dome is somehow dangerous!!</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4478</link>
<guid>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4478</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>David Turell</dc:creator>
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<title>The Far East (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are most likely correct there, as far water not reaching the top of mount Everest. However, this is not as discouraging to me as you might think. I think, from a skeptical perspective we could say that a global flood could happen, but it would not reach the top of Mount Everest. That would leave two avenues of research for me, one for a trigger, most likely meteoric, the other geological evidence of such a major event. The only trouble with evidence is that Geology has just as many interpretations as the bible LOL. Going to do so more digging, then I&amp;apos;ll step up to the plate and lob more balls at you and see if you can deflect them. :)</p>
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<link>https://agnosticweb.com/index.php?id=4474</link>
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<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Religion</category><dc:creator>Balance_Maintained</dc:creator>
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