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Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

dhw — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:27:44 +0000

tofayel: I believe that without religion world will not survive.-Welcome to the forum. Do please tell us your reasons for this belief.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

tofayel — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:27:44 +0000

I believe that without religion world will not survive.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

satyansh — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 22:11:12 +0000

"In my opinion, philosophies becom religions when people become enshrined; when their thoughts are "canonized." While I do plan on reading all of the vedas, the author I am reading for "geeta" (proper? Don't want to say the wrong thing!) Is definitely of the opinion that the gita is the only vedic text one ever needs to read. It's the most abrahamic I have ever seen an eastern author be."-well I do not know whos actually presenting hinduism to you. In my humble opinion he is actually not entirely aware of Indias History and probably suffers from the same intellectual corruption that a lot of Indians suffer. My advice read the vedas first because the geeta to me is basically a part of the mahabharata and it does not represent hinduism in its totality. i dunnu how abrahamic it is though because the geeta i have read and we have in our house certainly isnt like the bible or koran. but yes there might be similarities which will be there in any kind of theistic book.-"I think we have much in common despite our backgrounds. I look forward to exploring this!"-It has been a pleasure to meet everyone here. i am also looking forward to meaningful and enlightening discussions on this forum.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

xeno6696 — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 20:07:14 +0000

In my opinion, philosophies becom religions when people become enshrined; when their thoughts are "canonized." While I do plan on reading all of the vedas, the author I am reading for "geeta" (proper? Don't want to say the wrong thing!) Is definitely of the opinion that the gita is the only vedic text one ever needs to read. It's the most abrahamic I have ever seen an eastern author be. -As for cultural identity, I can sympathize; I'm from nordic descent, and have spent a couple years learning the traditions of my ancestors. The stories of Odin and Thor resonate more with me than thetradition I was raised in. -I also believe that the goal of humanism is synonymous with what I learned from Buddhism, but I still cannot abide by vegetarianism and pacifism. That said, I will have my kids raised as Buddhists before Christians--my response to the intolerance I was raised in. -I think we have much in common despite our backgrounds. I look forward to exploring this!

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

satyansh — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 08:02:23 +0000

"I am actually just starting work on my B.A. in History/Philosophy/Religion(it is so cool that you can specialize degrees like that now). So I am really looking forward to studying Hinduism and other Eastern philosophies. Regardless of what Hinduism may have started out as, however, it is indeed a religion. And it is set up as a religion from the time of the Vedas. For example the Bhagavad-Gita starts off as a conversation between God and Man. You can't exactly get more 'religious' than that. That is not to discredit or belittle Hinduism in anyway, just trying to keep things in their proper perspective. For that matter, any idea that has enough followers and contains a structure of beliefs is a religion, and in that respect DHW is correct in saying that even Atheism is a religion."-I agree with you if you believe any idea that a certain number of followers is a religion. then yes Hinduism is a religion. but than that would make some seriously weird things religions too. -But what intrigues me is that you ask any Sanskrit scholar and tell him the word for religion in Sanskrit and he cannot give you a word. i haven't found a word which is used to pronounce religion in Sanskrit.-Because Dharma does not mean religion and Hinduism is called Sanatana Dharma which means Eternal law. Now thats what makes me question that is it really a religion.-Another thing this is just a suggestion. You really want to form an opinion about hindu philosophies than read the vedas first. you will never get a true hindu perspective until you do not read the vedas. geeta is a small part of the vast hindu philosophy. do not form opinions based on the geeta. i am not disrespecting the geeta but honestly i think it doesnt do justice to hinduism.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

satyansh — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 07:13:46 +0000

"I've recently read portions of "Bhagavad Gita as it Is." If this author is representing hinduism, he's abdicating our right to free will. "Anyone who thinks he is not controlled is insane," the author says in the introduction. Everything is predetermined...-That is NOT like Buddhism at all. Though keep in mind I practiced Buddhism from the vietmanese/Japanese perspective that throws out everything but meditative practice, highly minimal.-I share your view that philosophically, eastern religions are certainly more balanced, yet I hate it when people say that ALL people seek religion, god, whatever. I do not. I live by my own philosophy, and do not care for cosmic appeals outside of fascination for culture. I revere only man's intellect and free will as objects worthy of enshrinement, however odd this might sound. I recognize that whatever truth might exist, I am limited to a material body in a material world, with a similarly rooted perspective that isn't easy to dislodge.-With all due respect, Shakyamuni founded his religion on the principle that mysticism and materialism were two extremes, and that neither was wholly correct. Thus Buddhism was born. It is in this light of perspectivism that Nietzcshe founded his own school."-Now if you are going only by the Geeta than I think your perspective of Hindu Philosophy is pretty narrow and you are restricting yourself. The Hindu philosophy is starting from the vedas then we have the upanishads the puranas and then last comes the geeta/ramayana/mahabharata. the geeta explains a very a small part of the vast hindu philosophy. i would recommend you to read the vedas in detail and than explain to me how different buddhism/hinduism/jainism really are. Like i said exactly in my previous post.-"Hinduism is more open ended and buddhism and jainism are more specific as they only concentrated on 1 particular way. so if a persons views are buddhist they are as hindu and if a persons views are hindu they are as buddhist or jain."-What buddhism and jainism are following and i know it in some detail, (although i am no expert and i am always open to new opinions) as I am lucky enough to be born in the land of these philosophies and I was just interested in them because of the immense respect I have for Buddha and Mahavira as great human beings. I never say they are 100% similar obviously they cannot be but the core principles of all the eastern philosophies are pretty much the same because they are coming from the same socio-cultural background. infact buddhism and jainism have had immense influences on future hindu philosophies too. -Now to your point of you not needing religion. For me being a hindu isnt a religious thing but it is a cultural and social identity. i belong to the ancestry of people who lived along the indus river and because the visitors who came to visit could not pronounce the word sindhu which was the region where they used to live of Sindh they started calling us hindu.-Now the set of rules of the conduct of the people who lived there was basically called Hinduism the original name is Sanatana Dharma which means Eternal Law. Now is it really a religion I dont know. Maybe they were not intended to be made religions but over the advent of time they have become religions.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

xeno6696 — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:57:18 +0000

I've recently read portions of "Bhagavad Gita as it Is." If this author is representing hinduism, he's abdicating our right to free will. "Anyone who thinks he is not controlled is insane," the author says in the introduction. Everything is predetermined...-That is NOT like Buddhism at all. Though keep in mind I practiced Buddhism from the vietmanese/Japanese perspective that throws out everything but meditative practice, highly minimal.-I share your view that philosophically, eastern religions are certainly more balanced, yet I hate it when people say that ALL people seek religion, god, whatever. I do not. I live by my own philosophy, and do not care for cosmic appeals outside of fascination for culture. I revere only man's intellect and free will as objects worthy of enshrinement, however odd this might sound. I recognize that whatever truth might exist, I am limited to a material body in a material world, with a similarly rooted perspective that isn't easy to dislodge. -With all due respect, Shakyamuni founded his religion on the principle that mysticism and materialism were two extremes, and that neither was wholly correct. Thus Buddhism was born. It is in this light of perspectivism that Nietzcshe founded his own school.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

Balance_Maintained — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 12:11:57 +0000

Its never too late my friend. Infact this forum has been a refreshing change from the normal bashing that happens almost on all the other forums. I find people here genuinely interested in solving the mysteries that life has presented. > -I have to agree with you here. The attitude of this group has been immensely refreshing when compared with some of the other discussion forums I have tried.- > "There was something in your post here that struck a chord with me. First the quote "Atman is Brahman" is very resonate with the much later catch phrase of popular science fiction writer Robert Heinlein, "Thou art God", and represents I think one of the key pieces missing from the Abrahamic religions, namely the oneness of everything." > -I am actually just starting work on my B.A. in History/Philosophy/Religion(it is so cool that you can specialize degrees like that now). So I am really looking forward to studying Hinduism and other Eastern philosophies. Regardless of what Hinduism may have started out as, however, it is indeed a religion. And it is set up as a religion from the time of the Vedas. For example the Bhagavad-Gita starts off as a conversation between God and Man. You can't exactly get more 'religious' than that. That is not to discredit or belittle Hinduism in anyway, just trying to keep things in their proper perspective. For that matter, any idea that has enough followers and contains a structure of beliefs is a religion, and in that respect DHW is correct in saying that even Atheism is a religion. - > > "The other thing that caught my attention, is the word Maya. The obvious connection would be to the Mayan population of the central/south Americas. Normally I would dismiss such a thing as coincidence of language. However, based on my admittedly limited study of the Vedas, there was some mention of odd flying contraptions in their text. What is strange about that is that there were necklaces found in Mayan/Aztec ruins that seem to depict such flying contraptions, right down to having the symbols for rise and descend engraved on them. One thing might be coincidence, but two? Makes me wonder if there is any link between ancient Mayans and the Ancient Indians." > > well Maya in sanskrit and hindi means something that could be broadly included in the things that come under dream or illusion. i dont know the mayan connection. i have to research that. > -I was actually just idly musing about the possibility that the Mayans, and possibly even Aztecs were in fact of Indian/Hindu decent. The name would actually be very fitting for them, particularly if they named their culture after a dream of some previous cultural peak that was so changed in the way that it was passed down from generation to generation that it took on the form myth and legend versus the very real history it contained. It would explain some of the cultural diffusion, particularly on the religious front. There are a large number of similarities between early american religious beliefs and the ancient polytheistic beliefs of the Hindu. Just a thought..

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

satyansh — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 08:09:18 +0000

Its never too late my friend. Infact this forum has been a refreshing change from the normal bashing that happens almost on all the other forums. I find people here genuinely interested in solving the mysteries that life has presented.-"There was something in your post here that struck a chord with me. First the quote "Atman is Brahman" is very resonate with the much later catch phrase of popular science fiction writer Robert Heinlein, "Thou art God", and represents I think one of the key pieces missing from the Abrahamic religions, namely the oneness of everything."-Well honestly if you look back at the history of India and if you do research on the Sanskrit language and Hindi language there isn't any word in Sanskrit or Hindi that actually describe the word religion. People often use the word "Dharma" for religion but Dharma in it's true form actually means righteousness or one's duty and it has nothing to do with explaining religion as it is defined in the English language.-I often wonder at times that what we know as Hinduism the religion was it really a religion or it became a religion in the process when we were invaded first by Mughals(Muslims) and than by the British because before that it was just us eastern philosophies namely Hinduism( Sanatana Dharma which means eternal law is the true name) along with Jainism and Buddhism. I almost feel at times when we got attacked by the Muslims, the origin of Hinduism as a religion seems to be a response of a identity threat posed to our civilization. because we were called Hindus by them because we lived by the Indus river and the people who we thought were visitors but actually they wanted to kick our asses and rule us couldn't call us sindhus hence they called us Hindus. so if u think like that, actually it never really was a religion. it was a culmination of many people sitting down and just jotting down philosophies in the Vedas followed by the Upanishads/puranas/geeta/mahabharata.-I think the abrahamic religions have a very different thought process because they were presented to mankind as a word of god but eastern philosophies were not actually written to be a word of god but just words of wise men who thought they could contribute to the society at large. hence i feel at times they aren't really religions if you go by the actual English definition of religions.-"The other thing that caught my attention, is the word Maya. The obvious connection would be to the Mayan population of the central/south Americas. Normally I would dismiss such a thing as coincidence of language. However, based on my admittedly limited study of the Vedas, there was some mention of odd flying contraptions in their text. What is strange about that is that there were necklaces found in Mayan/Aztec ruins that seem to depict such flying contraptions, right down to having the symbols for rise and descend engraved on them. One thing might be coincidence, but two? Makes me wonder if there is any link between ancient Mayans and the Ancient Indians."-well Maya in sanskrit and hindi means something that could be broadly included in the things that come under dream or illusion. i dont know the mayan connection. i have to research that.-Last but not the least thank you for welcoming me to the forum. it is indeed a great pleasure talking to you. as far as rationality goes. i know being rational isn't the most important thing. but i guess at that point of time i felt like writing that post so i mentioned that point in the post.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

Balance_Maintained — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 04:52:13 +0000

Once again, many thanks to satyansh for comprehensive answers to my questions. The appalling treatment of the Hindus by the so-called "Christian" British, and the manner in which the British divided India, is one of the great stains on our history. Gandhi is now almost venerated for his insistence on non-violence in the successful campaign for independence, but not long ago I read an account purporting to give Nathuram Godse's reasons for the assassination. He has always been dismissed over here as a Hindu fanatic, but apparently his motives were politically very rational, as he felt that Gandhi was leading India and especially the Hindus to disaster. Your own account would seem to justify his motivation, if not his action. You have also highlighted the difficult problem of achieving a balance between the need to avoid violence and aggression, and the need for self-defence. -DHW, in answer to this, I would suggest you read the first several chapters of the Bhagavad-Gita, where Vishnu is telling Krishna that slaughtering those who have in essence given up their claim to humanity by virtue of their vile deeds is not a crime nor are they deserving of your remorse, even if they are family members. The book obviously does a much better job of explaining it, but that is its essence in a nutshell.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

Balance_Maintained — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 04:29:54 +0000

> A popular saying in Hinduism is "Atman is Brahman!" In fact, all living things are Brahman at their innermost core! In addition, instead of ritual sacrifice, intuitive knowledge of the oneness of all things came to be endorsed as the way of contact with divine reality. Also found in the Upanishads is the teaching that the material world (including our conscious personalities) is less than fully real. The word "maya" is used to designate the power by which God, or ultimate reality, brought this less than real world into existence.- Welcome to the forums! As usual, I am about a day late to the ball. -There was something in your post here that struck a chord with me. First the quote "Atman is Brahman" is very resonate with the much later catch phrase of popular science fiction writer Robert Heinlein, "Thou art God", and represents I think one of the key pieces missing from the Abrahamic religions, namely the oneness of everything.-The other thing that caught my attention, is the word Maya. The obvious connection would be to the Mayan population of the central/south Americas. Normally I would dismiss such a thing as coincidence of language. However, based on my admittedly limited study of the Vedas, there was some mention of odd flying contraptions in their text. What is strange about that is that there were necklaces found in Mayan/Aztec ruins that seem to depict such flying contraptions, right down to having the symbols for rise and descend engraved on them. One thing might be coincidence, but two? Makes me wonder if there is any link between ancient Mayans and the Ancient Indians. -Anyway, welcome to the forums, and thank you for your enlightening posts on Hiduism. It is a much appreciated viewpoint. -As far as rationalism is concerned though, don't get to hung up on it. Rationalism is the Yin to Irrationalism's(Spiritualism) Yang. They are both equally valid and necessary for humanity. It is no coincidence that there is not a single culture in human history that is devoid of religion. Just as there is not a single culture in human history that is completely devoid of rational progress in some fashion.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

dhw — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 11:11:09 +0000

Satyansh: I have to say this from the bottom of my heart that it has been an absolute pleasure talking to all of you. You have helped me immensely in enhancing my knowledge in terms of the beauty of life in general. Meeting people like you and all the others reinstate my faith that while human beings are killing each other on a large variety of reasons we still have people who truly believe in humanity and freedom.-I'm sure all of us feel the same way about you, and I reckon we've now found that we have a lot more in common with Hinduism than we ever thought we had! One of the most reassuring features of this forum has been that although virtually all those who are contributing now, or who have contributed in the past, have had major differences of opinion, the exchange of views has almost always been free from the personal abuse and arrogance often found in such discussions. Long may it remain so!

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

satyansh — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 13:24:38 +0000

"As regards people's good or bad luck, if a branch falls on my head, I would much prefer to have people attending to my injuries and saying how unlucky I am than to have them telling me it's my own fault because in a past life I must have been an absolute bastard."-Like the last part (LOL).-I find your views pretty similar to mine the only difference being you are not really interested in being affiliated with any religious identity. -While i myself am not too serious on any religion but i stick to Hinduism mostly because it fascinates me and is also a part of my social and cultural identity and i really dont think it hinders me from questioning life in general.-I have to say this from the bottom of my heart that it has been an absolute pleasure talking to all of you. You have helped me immensely in enhancing my knowledge in terms of the beauty of life in general.-Meeting people like you and all the others reinstate my faith that while human beings are killing each other on a large variety of reasons we still have people who truly believe in humanity and freedom.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

dhw — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 13:07:28 +0000

Yet again, my thanks to satyansh for a thorough response. I too am a huge fan of Tendulkar!-The only outstanding matter from your post is that you would like to know my views on spirituality from a western perspective. -I have a completely open mind on the question of whether what we call the spirit is or is not bound to the body. By that I mean that I find our powers of consciousness, emotion, imagination, memory etc. totally mystifying, and don't know if the brain is some wonderful machine that PRODUCES these processes, or if the brain acts as a MEDIUM through which some unknown form of identity operates. If there is a duality of spirit and body, I don't see it as being of any significance unless there is some form of afterlife. In other words, if all of me dies when my body dies, the whole question of duality will become irrelevant, although that doesn't stop me thinking about it! On the subject of reincarnation, see my final paragraph.-As for spirituality in the sense of a personal philosophy, I have tried all my life to be kind, not to be selfish, to fulfil whatever talents I have, and to respect other people's opinions unless I consider them to be harmful. I can't claim that this is in aid of some grand ideal, because it just happens to be the way of life that makes me happy. On the other hand, if I think someone is out to make me unhappy, I will defend myself! I abhor violence and aggression but am not a pacifist. I would probably have been a useless soldier (I'm far too old now anyway), but I accept the necessity for defensive warfare. Spiritual matters such as religion and the arts are of great interest to me, but I have no religious beliefs, do not feel any need for them, and am sceptical towards all prescriptive religions and philosophies.-My scepticism does not, however, blind me to the spiritual values that the various religions and philosophies set out to foster, and in general ... if we can shut theology out of the equation ... I think the basic ideas of self-improvement and consideration for others are common to them all. Whether the link to forms of existence beyond our own is real or not is another matter, which is why I'm an agnostic.-In response to BBella's post on reincarnation, I see no point in it if we do not remember our former lives. We might just as well start from scratch, as it makes not the slightest difference whether we were or weren't here before. As regards people's good or bad luck, if a branch falls on my head, I would much prefer to have people attending to my injuries and saying how unlucky I am than to have them telling me it's my own fault because in a past life I must have been an absolute bastard.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

BBella — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:20:18 +0000

> Well those are the concepts that Hinduism preaches. I myself struggle in my own way to find out whether there is a after life or there isn't. I agree with you about hinduism being convoluted for you, heck it is confusing to me too. Hence I said its too open ended. What would like to know is what are your views on spirituality from a western perspective.-My views are not too far from the many opened ended Hindu teachings (I now realize thanks to you Satyansh) most of which I've come upon myself. I choose to believe in karma and reincarnation because it's the ideas that bring me the greatest inner peace. It explains to my observant (and sometimes fearful) mind the luck (good and bad) people have as well as the very horrific and wondrous things we humans experience here on earth.-But most of all, I believe in reincarnation because, I believe just as matter is endless and ever evolving, so is consciousness. I also choose to believe that earth is only one of many fields for the consciousness to come and play and learn in. -Because we have endless consciousness we have the option at any time of forgetfulness. Earth is a great place to come and forget your infinite soul and to play and learn in the field of forgetfulness.-bb

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

satyansh — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:02:25 +0000

"but not long ago I read an account purporting to give Nathuram Godse's reasons for the assassination. He has always been dismissed over here as a Hindu fanatic, but apparently his motives were politically very rational, as he felt that Gandhi was leading India and especially the Hindus to disaster. Your own account would seem to justify his motivation, if not his action. You have also highlighted the difficult problem of achieving a balance between the need to avoid violence and aggression, and the need for self-defence."-Nathuram Godse's letter is one of the finest proofs in Indian history about Gandhi and his obsession with minorities. I always say Gandhi motives were admirable and i admire him for a lot of things but when to comes to the cost my country paid i hate him for that. I am not one of those Indians who says Muslims dont deserve to be in India.They are as Indian as I am. Infact and i support them living in India. But when you have a country where minority appeasement is so prevailing that you have 2 constitutions one for India and one for Kashmir and it's Muslims it hurts you. The problem of achieving the balance between being secular and being pseudo secular has existed since our independence.-"On a lighter note: I don't know if you're a cricket fan, but from all your posts I suspect that Sachin Tendulkar is a Hindu. He is, I think, a living example of how plain decency in a human being elicits respect from others. No-one ever sledges him! (Apologies to our American friends, who will be wondering if such secret codes should be reported to Wikileaks.)"-I love Sachin Man. I am huge fan of Tendulkar. as far as wiki leaks are concerned I think Hillary Clinton has already shown how much she loves wiki leaks. i dun need to say more(LOL). But I like Americans very open minded people. I infact like westerners, they have come a long way from being those racist people who hated anyone other than them to be quite tolerant.Well there will be nut jobs everywhere but majority of them have realised you just cannot avoid other races now.-"Your response concerning concepts of the afterlife again makes it clear that there are all sorts of theories/beliefs/philosophies. Dvaita/Vishistadvaita appears to be the equivalent of the Christian heaven and the Muslim paradise. In the others, it seems that there is a loss of identity at death, in which case presumably enlightenment must be achieved in this life, after which the practitioner merges into the great oneness. In that case the duality between spirit/soul/self and body is ultimately of no account, since they both cease to exist anyway.-This thread has been a real eye-opener for me, and I suspect for others too, and although Hinduism remains far too convoluted for me to say I "understand" it (perhaps no-one does), I have a much better idea now of what it involves and what it stands for. I hope you'll continue to enlighten us!"-Well those are the concepts that Hinduism preaches. I myself struggle in my own way to find out whether there is a after life or there isn't. I agree with you about hinduism being convoluted for you, heck it is confusing to me too. Hence I said its too open ended. What would like to know is what are your views on spirituality from a western perspective.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

dhw — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:12:17 +0000

Once again, many thanks to satyansh for comprehensive answers to my questions. The appalling treatment of the Hindus by the so-called "Christian" British, and the manner in which the British divided India, is one of the great stains on our history. Gandhi is now almost venerated for his insistence on non-violence in the successful campaign for independence, but not long ago I read an account purporting to give Nathuram Godse's reasons for the assassination. He has always been dismissed over here as a Hindu fanatic, but apparently his motives were politically very rational, as he felt that Gandhi was leading India and especially the Hindus to disaster. Your own account would seem to justify his motivation, if not his action. You have also highlighted the difficult problem of achieving a balance between the need to avoid violence and aggression, and the need for self-defence. -On a lighter note: I don't know if you're a cricket fan, but from all your posts I suspect that Sachin Tendulkar is a Hindu. He is, I think, a living example of how plain decency in a human being elicits respect from others. No-one ever sledges him! (Apologies to our American friends, who will be wondering if such secret codes should be reported to Wikileaks.)-Your response concerning concepts of the afterlife again makes it clear that there are all sorts of theories/beliefs/philosophies. Dvaita/Vishistadvaita appears to be the equivalent of the Christian heaven and the Muslim paradise. In the others, it seems that there is a loss of identity at death, in which case presumably enlightenment must be achieved in this life, after which the practitioner merges into the great oneness. In that case the duality between spirit/soul/self and body is ultimately of no account, since they both cease to exist anyway. -This thread has been a real eye-opener for me, and I suspect for others too, and although Hinduism remains far too convoluted for me to say I "understand" it (perhaps no-one does), I have a much better idea now of what it involves and what it stands for. I hope you'll continue to enlighten us!

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

satyansh — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:36:36 +0000

" 2) In an earlier post you wrote that the highest attainable state is that of Moksha, in which the practitioner becomes one with the Eternal, and in your latest post you say "the spirit never dies until it achieves Moksha". I know you have your own doubts about such matters, but I'd be very interested if you could tell me what this means for the believer. Does he then lose his identity and consciousness in the great oneness of Brahma? Without our consciousness and identity, it seems to me that we might just as well be bones lying in the ground, in which case life is seen as a kind of hell, and death or Moksha are one and the same thing, providing us with final escape. But if we are still ourselves, how does the practitioner envisage spending the rest of eternity? Again, these are genuine questions, not criticisms, and I also ask them of Christians and Muslims who believe in an afterlife."-I Hope this answers this question. This is a detailed expalantion Moksha where you will find the asnwers I hope.-Hinduism-There are three major views on moksha from traditional Vedanta philosophy.-Advaita-According to Advaita Vedanta, the attainment of liberation coincides with the the realization of the Atman (one's personal soul) that it is identical with the Brahman, the source of all spiritual and phenomenal existence. The distinction between "self" and "one's body" is emphasized; the Neti Neti ("not this, not that") method of teaching is adopted. Moksha is seen as a final release from one's worldly conception of self and a loosening of the shackle of experiential duality, accompanied by the realization of one's own fundamental nature: sat (true being), cit (pure consciousness), and ananda, an experience which is ineffable and beyond sensation (see satcitananda).[9] Advaita holds that Atman, Brahman, and Paramatman are all one and the same - the formless Nirguna Brahman which is beyond the being/non-being distinction, tangibility, and comprehension.-Dvaita/Vishistadvaita-In Dvaita (dualism) and Vishistadvaita (qualified monism) schools of Vaishnava traditions, moksha is defined as the loving, eternal union with God (Ishvara) and considered the highest perfection of existence. The bhakta (devotee) attains the abode of the Supreme Lord in a perfected state but maintains his or her individual identity, with a spiritual form, personality, tastes, pastimes, and so on.-Achieving moksha-In Hinduism, atma-jnana (self-realization) is the key to obtaining moksha. The Hindu is one who practices one or more forms of Yoga - Bhakti, Karma, Jnana, Raja - knowing that God is unlimited and exists in many different forms, both personal and impersonal.-There are believed to be four Yogas (disciplines) or margas (paths) for the attainment of moksha. These are: working for the Supreme (Karma Yoga), realizing the Supreme (Jnana Yoga), meditating on the Supreme (Raja Yoga) and serving the Supreme in loving devotion (Bhakti Yoga). Different schools of Hinduism place varying emphasis on one path or other, some of the most famous being the tantric and yogic practices developed in Hinduism.-Vedanta approaches are split between strict non-duality (advaita), non-duality with qualifications (such as vishishtadvaita), and duality (dvaita). The central means to moksha advocated in these three branches vary.-Advaita Vedanta emphasizes Jnana Yoga as the ultimate means of achieving moksha, and other yogas (such as Bhakti Yoga) are means to the knowledge, by which moksha is achieved. It focuses on the knowledge of Brahman provided by traditional vedanta literature and the teachings of its founder, Adi Shankara.[10] Through discernment of the real and the unreal, the sadhak (practitioner) would unravel the maya and come to an understanding that the observable world is unreal and impermanent, and that consciousness is the only true existence. This intellectual understanding was moksha, this was atman and Brahman realized as the substance and void of existential duality. The impersonalist schools of Hinduism also worship various deities, but only as a means of coming to this understanding - both the worshiped and worshiper lose their individual identities. Non-dualist schools sees God as the most worshippable object of love, for example, a personified monotheistic conception of Shiva or Vishnu. Unlike Abrahamic traditions, Advaita/Smartha Hinduism does not prevent worship of other aspects of God, as they are all seen as rays from a single source. The concept is essentially of devotional service in love, since the ideal nature of being is seen as that of harmony, euphony, its manifest essence being love. By immersing oneself in the love of God, one's karmas (good or bad, regardless) slough off, one's illusions about beings decay and 'truth' is soon known and lived. Both the worshiped and worshiper gradually lose their illusory sense of separation and only One beyond all names remains. One must achieve moksha on his or her own under the guidance of a Guru. A guru or a siddha inspires but does not intervene.-Components In the state of moksha or mukti, lies ultimate peace (shanti), ultimate knowledge (viveka), and ultimate enlightenment (kaivalya).

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

satyansh — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:30:54 +0000

"1) You have painted a rather idyllic picture of Hindus devoting themselves to doing good deeds, but of course Jews, Christians and Muslims also see themselves as morally good. I wonder to what extent the Hindu community in India has proved itself to be more altruistic and law-abiding than the small Christian community and the huge Muslim community. In other words, does the theoretical emphasis on good deeds actually have the desired practical results, as compared to other religions/philosophies?"-You have no idea how thankful I am to you for asking me this question. I sincerely will thank you for probably all my life for this. As you know India was a much larger nation before it included the current nations of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh and the area that is currently called India.-India is a country which has a prime minister who is a Sikh( Sikhism is another religious minority in India). The leader of the party that is in power is a Christian. The President of India is a Muslim. -Now i will give you statistics of India's population when we were separated and Pakistan and India were 2 separate nations.-India 1947 Hinduism accounted for 86.5% of the population of India. Islam (9.9%), Christianity (1.6%) and Sikhism (1.3%) and the rest were other faiths. India 2001 According to the 2001 census,Hinduism accounted for 80.5% of the population of India. Islam (13.4%), Christianity (2.3%) and Sikhism (1.9%) and the rest were other faiths.-Pakistan The Hindu population in Pakistan has reduced from 26%, in 1947, right down to 2% in 1990 which is now less than 1%. Bangladesh The Hindu Population in 1971 when they were formed was 35% and now it is a mere 10%. Conceivably, by 2050 Bangladesh will achieve the status of Pakistan: no significant Hindu population.-Now why i am giving you these figures is because it is very important to understand while in India where the majority Hindu population in reducing because of factors such as one child per person and also other factors. Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh were subjected to immense torture and were either converted or killed. Hindus in their history have been very tolerant because of the teachings of their books and philosophies who believed in ahimsa( ahimsa means non violence). Let me put it this way. We were never Muslims. Muslims came and invaded us they tortured us and they killed us but we still accept them and they live with Hindus in India. Than Britishers came and they brought Christianity to India. They also killed us and tortured us and we still have them in India. that is because Hindus by nature are tolerant because their philosophies are tolerant. -India is a secular democracy but if you ask me while I agree other religions should be given their freedoms in India I do feel somewhere in my heart that there is a systematic Hindu cleansing happening in this country and pseudo secularism has over taken Indian politics especially when it comes to Muslims because they are a major vote bank in India and minority appeasement is really affecting India. If these statistics aren't a proof of altruistic and law-abiding Hindus than I dont know what is. I wont deny there haven't been religious attacks. But always remember Hindus in India have always attacked in defense. we dont have a history of going and invading any nation in more than 10000 years of our history but yes we were ruled first by Muslims and then by Christians for more than 700 years simply because Hindus are too tolerant and they believe in Non Violence. Heck the guy who freed us from the Britishers who is called Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi also got it from non violence and that is a Hindu concept my dear friend nothing else. I Hope this answers your first question. I could give you a barrage of historical evidences but then it would be forever.

Can The World Survive Without Religion (Yes or No) A Hindu P (reply)

dhw — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 11:43:15 +0000

I asked Satyansh what was the evidence for and point of reincarnation, drew attention to the fact that Darwin's theory of evolution did not shed any light on the origin of life, and suggested that Brahma might not be that far removed from Jehovah/Allah/God, and we should keep an open mind about whether there might be a conscious and personal creator. Satyansh has given me a very thorough response, from which it is clear that he himself is asking similar questions, but that Hinduism allows for all approaches.-Again I can only thank you for the clarity and openness of your answers. The fact that English is not your native language makes your contribution all the more impressive! -There are two more questions I would like to ask you, if I may.-1) You have painted a rather idyllic picture of Hindus devoting themselves to doing good deeds, but of course Jews, Christians and Muslims also see themselves as morally good. I wonder to what extent the Hindu community in India has proved itself to be more altruistic and law-abiding than the small Christian community and the huge Muslim community. In other words, does the theoretical emphasis on good deeds actually have the desired practical results, as compared to other religions/philosophies?-2) In an earlier post you wrote that the highest attainable state is that of Moksha, in which the practitioner becomes one with the Eternal, and in your latest post you say "the spirit never dies until it achieves Moksha". I know you have your own doubts about such matters, but I'd be very interested if you could tell me what this means for the believer. Does he then lose his identity and consciousness in the great oneness of Brahma? Without our consciousness and identity, it seems to me that we might just as well be bones lying in the ground, in which case life is seen as a kind of hell, and death or Moksha are one and the same thing, providing us with final escape. But if we are still ourselves, how does the practitioner envisage spending the rest of eternity? Again, these are genuine questions, not criticisms, and I also ask them of Christians and Muslims who believe in an afterlife.