An Alternative to Evolution: Expounded Upon (Introduction)

by David Turell , Friday, August 03, 2018, 15:38 (2085 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

TONY: Ever notice that most thread on biology get bogged down in this same debate?
Dhw, unless I am mistaken, David agrees that cells behave intelligently, but thinks that appearance of intelligence is more akin to a highly developed chemical response system, rather than on par with the creative intelligence of humans. And make know doubt, they would need a self-awareness, an analytical intelligence, and a creative intelligence, and the ability to perform such huge knowledge leaps in a single cellular lifespan.

DHW: I have repeatedly said that cellular intelligence is not to be compared with human intelligence. But yes, a particular kind of analytical, creative intelligence would certainly be necessary, though I don’t know why you say it has to be in the lifespan of a single cell. Even our own cell communities renew themselves at different intervals, but their information is passed on.

Is there any demonstrable evidence that a cell learns...and do consider for a moment what that actually entails...then stores that knowledge somewhere? Are cells spontaneously adding new genes as storage media for this new information? I mean, let's assume for one second that this is what's happening, and figure out what precisely would be required in order for your cells to do what you say they can do.

Learning - Learning requires stimulus/response systems, which they have, in order to gather data. Now, since they don't have Google (or books), they must needs learn by experimentation. Which means we should see repeated actions from the cell that become more proficient over time. However, merely becoming more efficient at hunting or some such does not, in and of itself, indicate learning. It could simply be strengthening of whatever part of the organism is being used. No, in order to indicate learning, we would need to see the cell attempt something and FAIL, then attempt to do it a different way, over and over, until a successful solution was found. That is not what we observe.

Memory - Now, assuming that the organism does pass the first check, it must now store that information somewhere. Where is the long term data storage that survives cell division? Is there some process that rewrites sections of dna on the fly as a sort of data storage? This is also not what we observe.

Creativity - Ah, this is really where it all falls down. Creativity requires a frame of reference, a goal, a vision. Even without self-awareness or self-reflection, the creative act requires at a minimum abstract reasoning; the ability to imagine. And, in order to bring that creative vision to fruition, it requires the ability to plan, which implies forward thinking and logic.

To make matters more complicated, it would also require cells to learn about things that they have know way to learn about! How would a cell make the leap from cell division to sex? Why would they? What possible information could a asexually reproductive creature have that could possibly allow it to understand that the way it enters into the world and how it procreates, two of the most fundamental truths of a organisms existence, are not the optimal way? And then to plan not one, but two sets of plans that must be fulfilled in a single generation (assuming you get past the memory hurdle). I say fulfilled as in, a Female with no male could not reproduce, and vice versa.

These are not trivial problems for your hypothesis to overcome.

dhw's problem is that he is quoting scientists who do single cell studies of response to specific stimuli and extrapolates their findings of 'intelligent' responses to make the point that the cells must have intelligence and that intelligence can be seen in whole organs. It is obvious to me an intelligent designer can create exactly what is seen.