New Miscellany Parts 1 &:2: evolution, eco, intelligence. (General)

by dhw, Thursday, May 01, 2025, 08:34 (15 hours, 15 minutes ago) @ David Turell

dhw: By definition, the surviving species did not go extinct!!! 696 species of dinosaur went extinct, 4 species of dinosaur did not go extinct. Those were the survivors! Now please tell us what constitutes the “real” continuum.

DAVID: You have memorized one minor example where four dinosaur species went extinct and left bird survivors. Proves my point: a continuum of extinction and survival.

dhw: 696 dinosaur species went extinct, and four survivors left descendants!!! At least get the figures right. And now we’re told that a continuum is 99.9% NOT continuous, and 01.% continuous! The dinosaur example confirms your own belief that approx. 99.9% go extinct and approx. 0.1% survive. W

DAVID: Wow: among our birds are four living dinosaurs according to your weird form of evolution.

What are you talking about? Four species of dinosaur which survived the Chixculub extinction were the ancestors of the birds that exist today. 696 species did not survive and produced no descendants. This example supports the generally accepted belief that 99.9% of species went extinct, and all living species are descendants of the 0.1% surviving, as you have agreed. Why do you go on trying to deny the obvious, which you yourself have confirmed?

Zombification

DAVID: God always knew exactly what He was doing. He produced everything He wished.

dhw: And that is why he produced 99.9% out of 100% species he did not wish for, and he specially designed zombification because humans could not survive without it.

DAVID: Why do you constantly forget ecosystems support life? Including zombies.

Why do you constantly forget that the obvious fact that ecosystems support life does not support your absurd theory that every ecosystem was specially designed to support humans, though for 3.X billion years, humans were not around.

The gruesome zombie strategy raises another issue of major importance to anyone interested in the nature of a possible God. If you insist that he designed every species and every strategy, what facet of his nature would you say is revealed by the invention of carnivorousness: the deliberate design of species which can only survive by killing and eating other life forms?

Plants using heat

DAVID: All part of ecosystems that give us food.

dhw: Just like all the ecosystems that came and went for 3,000,000,000+ years before humans arrived on the scene. All created just for us!

DAVID: Why dredge up old ecosystems 3byo!

Because of your absurd theory that right from the beginning of life, your God’s one and only purpose was to design us and our food, although for 3.X billion years 99.9% of his designs and ecosystems had no connection with us and our food.

Loss of ants

QUOTE: It is easy to forget how important ants are in the majority of terrestrial ecosystems. They're often referred to as ecosystem engineers because they have such profound effects on the ecosystems they live in.

Their ingenuity, highly sophisticated strategies and social structures, and ability to solve problems also demonstrate astonishing intelligence.

DAVID: ecosystems maintain life. Every organism has its place.

And for billions of years, organisms did this in the absence of human beings, which is why it is nonsense to claim that they were all specially designed for our use.

Mind and cosmos

QUOTES: Intelligence may exist and evolve on its own, without emerging within living organisms.

“Eventually, I came to believe that intelligence is not a byproduct of the brain, but a fundamental property of the universe—a kind of informational ether that certain structures, like the brain or an AI model, can tap into.'” (dhw’s bold)

DAVID: In NDE's the consciousness appears to be separate from the brain.

dhw: The idea that intelligence is an immaterial “ fundamental property of the universe” begs the question of whether the universe would exist if it wasn’t for all its materials. That is one of the great mysteries presented by the God theory: how could consciousness exist on its own without a source? And what would it be conscious of, if nothing else existed? And what is meant by “tapping into” a property outside the brain? Are all our thoughts contained in an outside something or the other, and our non-thinking brain somehow calls on the thoughts to enter it?

dhw: I felt these questions were simply glossed over by the author and ignored by you.

DAVID: In NDE's consciousness seems to separate from a non-functioning brain, and be functioning.

You keep repeating this, and I keep agreeing. But I am pointing out that this does not normally entail the theory we are discussing, which is that consciousness exists as a fundamental property of the universe, as opposed to the individual consciousness apparently displayed during NDEs. It’s a pity you aren’t willing to think about the questions I’ve asked above in relation to the major issues ignored by the article.