David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, December 07, 2019, 17:40 (1595 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I directly believe God is the engineer of evolution and designed all species. I don't need to know why God delayed, because that is exactly what He did as his decision.

dhw: It is your interpretation of his purpose and method that has created the delay. If either of these was different from your fixed beliefs, the idea of a “delay” would disappear!

'Delay' is entirely your concept. God in charge desired to produce humans and chose to do it by evolving them from bacteria. Evolution takes time, so it is obvious He accepted the delay as a natural consequence.

DAVID: Your problem is you cannot accept how I believe in God. Of course my patterns of belief are incomprehensible to you and illogical by your reasoning. I consider Him as much more than just humanly thinking as we do. You are approaching God with your human logic. I've said all along it is your problem you create for yourself, certainly not mine.

dhw: I cannot accept your theory of God’s combined purpose and method (not “how you believe in God”), and the fact that you have to abandon human logic in order to believe it is unlikely to win you many human supporters!

Faith is arrived at by seeing evidence beyond reasonable doubt. I used plenty of reason to get where I am. Your most unreasonable thinking is that obvious design, which requires a designer leads you the fence.

dhw: Please explain what you meant when you said that your THEORY about your God’s choice of method (please don’t pretend you know that your choice was his choice) was not illogical “if one does apply human reasoning to the actual history”.

DAVID: Please reread the above statement of mine.

dhw: I have, and it confirms that you reject my human logic, and you cling to your theory on the grounds that your God doesn’t think like us humans, although elsewhere you have agreed that he “very well could think like us”.

Note I've said God thinks logically just as we do. His decisions on purposes are unknown and guessed at.

DAVID:The process of producing physical forms should proceed into a specific direction if humans are to be evolved. I consider God as very purposeful. You don't. Consciousness with free will is only a human attribute. You are still at apples and oranges. [/i](dhw’s bold)

dhw:If humans were the purpose of evolution, you are absolutely right: the process should have proceeded in a specific direction. But for 3.X billion years, it did not! Hence the illogicality of your theory. I have no doubt that your God would be very purposeful. I am challenging your interpretation of his purpose precisely because of your first sentence. One of the alternative purposes I have proposed is the unpredictable spectacle of evolution given free rein. You did not think your God would want this (you like to ”humanize” him as a control freak), so I simply gave you an example of his willingness to give up control.[/i] (David’s bold)

DAVID: Totally illogicality. The definition of evolution is that it evolves OVER TIME.

dhw: Of course it does. But evolution is not confined to the evolution of humans! If your God had only one purpose (humans), in your own words, “the process…should proceed into a specific direction”, but for 3.X billion years it did not!

What!!! Of course there was a specific direction to arrive at us, constant steps to more complexity. You're ignoring the bush is required for all to eat. "Balance of nature", econiches you accept and then forget.

DAVID: I cannot accept your humanized God in the above bold. All your examples are human logic imaginations at work but that doesn't mean He develops His purposes as you might imagine. I view Him as entirely purposeful.

dhw: If he exists, of course he would be entirely purposeful. That does not mean his entire purpose was to create humans, and so he spent 3.X billion years not creating humans. You totally reject the possibility that he might have given up control over evolution (you “humanize” him as a control freak), and yet you believe he gave up control by creating free will. I only wish you would apply the same human logic to your theory of evolution as you do to the case for design as argued so cogently in your excellent books.

Thank you, but you won't accept a designer from my books. Your argument that free will in humans indicates He would give up control over the direction of evolution is a strain in credulity. God controlled the new physical forms as evolution was directed to produce humans who would have consciousness and free will. You will note free will is not a physical form.