David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, April 11, 2020, 12:16 (1469 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: What you are really saying is that God knew he had to do what David Turell thinks he had to do!

DAVID: Now I'm not allowed to interpret God , with my logical reasons for God's giant bush.

dhw: You have no logical reason for the 3.X billion years’ of giant bush that preceded the giant bush that humans require. All you can say is that it happened, and so your God must have wanted to specially design humans by first specially designing the giant bush that had nothing to do with humans, but we shouldn’t ask why.

DAVID: But I have said why, and you continue to ignore it or talk around it. The current size of the human population requires the size of the bush for food supply, as God obviously anticipated from the beginning of life.

How can the current size of the human population require the 3.X thousand million years’ worth of long extinct but apparently specially designed life forms, econiches, lifestyles and natural wonders that preceded the arrival of humans??????

DAVID: Open your static mind. I had to lecture you about the formation of econiches and their importance, and I remember your first offhand comments that, of course, everyone ate.

dhw: Not offhand. [...] ALL life forms need econiches (i.e. a food supply) in order to survive, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with your theory that humans were your God’s only purpose but for some unknown reason...here we go again!... he directly designed billions of years’ worth of non-human bush and econiches before directly designing the only ones he wanted to design.

DAVID: Still all your manufactured problem. Why wasn't God humanly impatient as you obviously think He should be?

I am not asking why your God wasn’t “humanly impatient”. I’m pointing out that the current human need for a big bush does not explain why your God had to specially design 3.X billion years’ worth of bush – 99% extinct – before humans even began to arrive!

DAVID: […] from your view you still want to deny God's planning. Still anything but God. We will not convince each other across the divide.

dhw: Your usual escape route from your illogical theory by claiming that I am trying to avoid your God’s planning. I have offered you several logical THEISTIC theories to explain how the actual history can be made to fit in with your God’s nature and/or purposes. You can hardly dismiss those as “anything but God”, and so then you escape to your complaint that your God mustn’t be “humanized”, although by your own admission he could very well think like us and probably has thought patterns and emotions and attributes similar to ours.

DAVID: Again repeating a distorted version of my thoughts about God's thinking. All I have agreed to is that God thinks logically as we do, nothing more. "Emotions and attributes similar" is a possibility, but not any proof of how God thinks as He decides on purposeful activity.

Nothing can be proved, but since you believe human thought patterns (including logic), emotions and attributes are possible (originally probable), you can’t discount a theory which allows for them. You grumbled that my theories were meant to “deny God’s planning. Anything but God” – but all my alternatives were theistic, and you have accepted that they are all logical, in contrast to your own, as explained above.

From your second post:

DAVID: We have a huge bush of life. Why does it exist? I have provided an answer which I think is correct.

Your answer was that the huge bush of life exists because humans need it. That is no answer to the question why your God specially designed 3.X billion years’ worth of bush before humans even appeared on the scene.

QUOTE: "'There is so much we don't know about the deep sea, and there are countless species never before seen," said Wendy Schmidt, co-founder of Schmidt Ocean Institute. "Our planet is deeply interconnected — what happens in the deep sea impacts life on land—and vice versa. This research is vital to advance our understanding of that connection—and the importance of protecting these fragile ecosystems.

DAVID: Huge and everywhere we look. Even deep below the sea floor. Can anyone think of a reason different than mine?

I would not question the article’s statement that our planet is deeply interconnected. It always has been, long before humans arrived. And when connections break, we get new connections and new econiches. That does not mean your God specially designed 3.X billion years’ worth of non-human econiches for the sake of humans who were not even there!

A reason different from yours? If God exists, he set up a mechanism whereby cell communities could work out their own means of survival in a vast variety of environments. For billions of years, and with no connection to humans, the huge bush of life continued to change as environmental conditions changed. Econiches and species came and went as species adapted / innovated or failed to adapt. We still have a free-for-all, but humans have incomparably more means of changing the environment and of adapting to it, and of creating and destroying econiches. There is no evidence that God – if he exists – is intervening, which suggests that either he has lost interest or is and always has watched with interest all the changing spectacles his invention has provided. Just an alternative to your guess.