Pointy eggs and whales (Evolution)

by GateKeeper , Saturday, September 15, 2018, 13:09 (2048 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

DAVID:

By "denying God", I am of course referring to naturalism, which posits that all that we know comes from nothing and nowhere by any other means than those of a purely materialistic source. i.e. No God, no designer, just random chance and fluctuating quanta produced all that we see.

that implies far more than we know. Based on what we know, "from nothing" is as valid as "from God." To me, because I have no stake in the answer, both are assumed to be "natural"

Gatekeeper: what do we do now?

We know that things are too complex, too organized, to have come about without design.

Gatekeeper; we would have to investigate what you mean by design. "have to come about." Na, not for me. I don't agree with "has to". lets see what we do know through some questions.

It helps when you don't misquote. "..too complex, too organized, to have come about without design". To have, not have to. Completely different meanings.

Do we design the blood cells in us? Did our mother design us before birth? Did the biosphere design us? Was the biosphere designed by the universe? "born", maybe the universe was born. In the same sense as the things I listed above.

We do not. However, the information to build red blood cells, the information contained in our DNA had to originate somewhere BEFORE red blood cells could be produced. Also, you keep attributing sentience to the 'biosphere' and the universe. Is there some rationale behind that? Some logic or evidence?

I do know, if we shoot just one proton, at the right angle, into a black hole we may produce another universe. Did we design it? Or were we just a protein in a reproduce cycle? (bold mine)

How do you know? Have you created a universe? Witnessed it being done? Have the results been measured?

you hit a nerve. I wrote three pages ... for obvious reasons, I didn't post.

the short version.

1) yes, I misquoted, my apologies. But the point of my post still stands. There is no need for a designer as I use the word. Once we get to before the universe we are left with "something" or "nothing". I lean towards something, but that is where I stop.

I tend to speak to notions that we can see for ourselves. I limit the volume of space/time to the radius of 50 AU's. I ask myself, can that volume adequately explain what we are seeing on earth? There is no reason to go bigger until we agree on this region of space/time.

2), I actually claim the biosphere is life and it's interactions match those of a cell more than they match the most complex, nonliving, thing I know, the LHC. I have offered a calculation (the formula, I feel people should run the calculation themselves for teaching reasons) and a measurement.

3) The proton comment. You only plucked a word out of my sentence. I actually stated " I do know ... maybe ...". It was half a joke, like when we say "definitely maybe.". You kind of misquoted me like I misquoted you.