Pointy eggs and whales (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, September 19, 2018, 10:18 (2044 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: God is a much more logical option than the alchemy of inorganic sources from an 'impersonal universe'. As for your dislike of my second statement what made the impersonal universe but a first cause?

dhw: The choice is between a conscious first cause (your God) and a non-conscious first cause (an impersonal universe). Neither was “made”. You understandably claim that our life and consciousness and all our powers are too complex to have arisen without a designer. And yet you claim that it is logical for life and consciousness, in the form of a living, conscious God (who remains hidden) with powers infinitely greater than our own, to exist without having been designed. Wonderland logic.

DAVID: Of course the logic here is 'wonderland'. Logic requires God is eternal
dhw: Or logic requires that an impersonal universe is eternal.

DAVID: I still view God as eternal and I think He has produced many universes over eternity and we folks just happen to be in this one.

dhw: Or there have been many impersonal universes over eternity etc.

DAVID: We only have evidence of a possible origin of this universe, and no evidence of multiple universes or previous ones. But your logical suppositions are correct, except for removing a first cause.

Once again, I have NOT removed a first cause. You quote what I write, and then ignore it! As above, now in bold, “The choice is between a conscious first cause (your God) and a non-conscious first cause (an impersonal universe).” You think your God “has produced many universes over eternity”, but if I suggest there may have been many universes over eternity, you say we have no evidence. True. And the evidence we have is of a “possible” origin of this universe, but even if the big bang theory is true, we have no idea what preceded the big bang. You say a conscious first cause. Maybe. And maybe an unconscious first cause.