Miscellany (General)

by dhw, Sunday, February 14, 2021, 16:00 (1166 days ago) @ David Turell

Spiders lasso

DAVID: None of us know that answer. Theology is filled with guesses.

dhw: So what logic makes you sure he did not create life (including humans) in order to have something to be interested in? And why are you so insistent that he had a purpose, but then so scared of telling us what you think that purpose might have been?

DAVID: The purpose is production of humans, as previously stated. My view of God is that He is too purposeful to create something for His own self-interest. Do you think He gets bored?

I have asked why he created life including humans, and you keep chickening out of answering. I don’t know why you regard the creation of something interesting as not being purposeful.

Fin to limb genes

DAVID: You've again ignored necessary food supply

dhw: For the thousandth time, ALL forms of life are part of the food supply for other forms of life, but that does not mean they were all part of the goal of evolving humans. Please stop dodging.

DAVID: No dodge. You forget or ignore our evolution is one continuing process from simple to complex.

That does not mean it is one continuing process from bacteria to H. sapiens! It is one continuing process which according to you has encompassed the direct design of millions of extinct life forms that had no connection with humans, though you insist that the only purpose of all those extinct life forms was to enable your God to design humans.

DAVID: I have said I'll wait to condemn bad bugs, which may turn out to have good purpose.

dhw: So what was the point in your raising the question in the first place if you are not prepared to offer an answer and yet dismiss a possible answer even though you agree that it is logical?

DAVID: Some subjects are presented for completeness without answers known. Why not?

All our subjects are “without answers known”. That is why they are open to discussion. And then we test the various possible explanations. I see that as the purpose of this forum.

EGNOR ON FREE WILL

dhw: His approach is all about dualism versus materialism. Has he never heard of the cause-and-effect argument against free will? Namely, that every decision we take is influenced by factors beyond our control – not just the brain but our whole genetic makeup, our upbringing, our environment, chance events etc. We have dealt with this subject over and over again, and belief in free will depends on what the will is supposed to be free from. The above makes the case against the concept.

DAVID: I needed your repetition to properly answer point for point. The 'beyond our control' is totally fallacious. I have full right to chose among the influences in my past and discard them. Raised liberal I am now a very conservative libertarian. You are correct, free will involves what you make yourself free from, and environment, chance events, previous easily discarded upbringing never should influence an individual decision in that moment of thought. Freedom from most of the past in very possible.

I don’t know why you left out the last sentence of my answer: ”The argument in defence of the concept is that all the influences combine to make the unique person that is me, and nobody else takes my decisions.” My point was that Egnor made no mention of this all-important aspect of the subject.

Highest speed claw snapping

dhw: Do you think an unknown, sourceless, intelligent being created a special programme for claw-snapping 3.8 billion years ago, or popped in to perform a claw-snapping operation on a few pre-claw-snappers, and did so as part of his goal to evolve humans and their food supply?

DAVID: You know my expected answer. God is the designer of life and evolution. History is a clear picture of how He did it by design.

You have only offered us two forms of design, so please tell us: do you think he designed claw-snapping 3.8 billion years ago, or stepped in to perform an operation? And do you think claw-snapping was part of his goal to evolve humans and their food supply?