Miscellany (General)

by dhw, Tuesday, July 13, 2021, 11:46 (1019 days ago) @ David Turell

Phase precession
DAVID: Evolution from bacteria to us is shown in the known history you seem reject. My God creates this history you reject.

dhw: Evolution from bacteria to every other life form that ever existed is shown in the known history, but you claim that every other life form was “part of the goal of evolving [= specially designing] humans” plus their lunch, and you have no idea why your God chose specially to design all those that had no connection with humans and their lunch. That is why you continue to edit your theory by leaving out those parts of it which make no sense even to you.

DAVID: My thoughts about God leave nothing out. Somehow you edit out that evolution is a stepwise continuous process from simple to complex, and humans are the endpoint. All preceding us was and is required. Your bold makes no sense if viewed from my standpoint.

Required for what? The bold IS your standpoint, and you’re right, it makes no sense! Yes, evolution proceeds from simple to complex, and humans are the last species to have appeared. How does that come to mean that your God preprogrammed or dabbled every single life form and food form etc. because even those that had no connection with humans plus lunch were “required” before he could fulfil his only purpose and specially design humans plus lunch?

Dying cells protect living ones
dhw: “your imagination” of a possible God is that he cannot or would not design anything with an inventive mind of its own, apart from us humans. Why not?

DAVID: As explained elsewhere today, it all depends on how you view God. All of life contributes to food supply for all which you constantly try to ignore.

There you go again. Yes, all life forms require and required food. That does not explain the bold. Once more: Why do you think your God could not or would not have designed anything with an inventive mind of its own, apart from humans?

DAVID: You have again raised to issue of why didn't God just create us directly without all the rest of evolved life. He didn't. It is your issue alone.

No, he didn’t just create us directly. If he exists, we are in total agreement. But you have proposed the illogical theory bolded above. If you propose a theory and the theory makes no sense, why is that my issue alone? What is the point of any discussion if an elementary question elicits the response that it’s the questioner’s problem, not the theorist’s.

BACTERIAS’ ROLE IN HUMAN BIOMES
QUOTE: "Because the research also showed the significant impact of environment on the gut microbiomes in baboons, their findings agreed with previous studies showing that environmental effects on the variation in the gut microbiome play a larger role than additive genetic effects."

DAVID: More evidence that bacteria must be here and have a strong role to play, even if some act badly at times.

I’m interested in the role of the environment, since in my view it is a key to why organisms (including bacteria) make changes to themselves. As regards your own comment, no one would deny the importance of bacteria. The problem you refuse to face up to is why your God would specially design the sort of “bad” bacteria mentioned below:

ROLE IN HUMAN THERAPY
Quote: "A recent trial has shown that nose drops of modified 'friendly' bacteria may protect against meningitis."

DAVID: We humans can use our God-given brains to use bacteria for our benefit.

Lucky us. This does not explain why, according to you, your God specially designed Neisseria meningitidis. Do you really think he did so in order to enable humans to use other bacteria to protect some (not all) against it?

Proper Big Bang view
DAVID: If we are sure the universe had a beginning, therefore we have absolute proof of God. The space-time we live in had to have a cause. God's proof then relies upon whether one believe the Big Bang really happened, We all know the BB is not proven, but what if it is? Combined with the designed complexity of living biochemistry, the probability of His existence becomes very strong.

Lots of word games here. The issue itself doesn’t need all this messing about. We don’t know if the Big Bang happened, and we don’t know what preceded it if it did happen. If it did, I have no idea how you can possibly claim it provides absolute proof of God. You are then claiming that the cause of the bang was a conscious mind which had no source. It could just as well have been a non-conscious, sourceless combination of matter and energy, constantly changing forms and big-banging for ever and ever throughout past eternity. Why do you think a sourceless conscious before is possible but a sourceless unconscious before is impossible? But yes, the complexity of biochemistry is indeed a good argument for the existence of a designing mind or minds.