Back to theodicy and David's theories (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Friday, March 12, 2021, 07:49 (1142 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Motives and purpose are reasons for action, and we have been guessing at them for going on 13 years. Nothing new has turned up except the knowledge of the biochemistry of life is becoming increasingly complex, demanding a designer.

dhw: I know what motives and purpose are. The case for design is not new, and I have accepted it for the sake of discussing your illogical theory above. You insist on your God having only one purpose, I have challenged your theory, and then you claim you don’t give him any purpose. I wish you would repeat the fact that you have no idea why your God would have chosen your version of his method to achieve your version of his purpose, and leave it at that.

DAVID: I'll repeat: God chose to evolve us for unknown reasons.

And I’ll repeat that if God exists, he chose to evolve ALL life forms for unknown reasons, and the illogicality of your theory lies in your insistence that by “evolve” you mean directly design, and so you have him directly designing millions of life forms, 99% of which had no connection with humans, although his one and only purpose was supposed to be humans. Please stop editing out the parts of your theory that make it illogical.

Viruses

dhw: Why is it OK for you to humanize him by telling us you are sure he enjoys creating and watches us with interest, but it is not OK for me to use the same terms to provide a possible motive for his actions? Double standards again.

DAVID: When I make statements like 'enjoy' or 'take interest' I always indicate it is a guess or a maybe. You definitively are sure of those conjectures as you always humanize.

More straw men of your own making. I don’t even believe (or disbelieve) that God exists, let alone that he has this, that or the other attribute! On this thread, earlier this week, you wrote: “I’m sure God enjoys his work at creating”. Previously you were certain that he was interested in his creations. I have NEVER expressed certainty about any of these subjects, but I do insist that all my guesses fit in logically with the history of life as we know it, and you cannot find fault with the logic. You agree that your God probably/possibly has human thought patterns etc., but you want to censor any you don’t like, even when they derive from those that you do like.

Placenta

QUOTE: It was fascinating to observe how such a serious genetic flaw as a chromosomal copy number error was ironed out by the baby but not by the placenta.

DAVID: Here again we see God saw need for error corrections and provided a mechanism.

dhw: And who created the errors in the first place? I know - you think your all-powerful, always-in-control God couldn’t design a system that would avoid such errors, including all those for which he did not provide a corrective mechanism. While we’re on the subject, why do you think he would have provided mechanisms for error correction?

DAVID: To undo errors His form of biochemical life can mistakenly make. All discussed before.

I know he would have provided mechanisms for error correction in order to correct errors. Let me rephrase the question: why do you think he wanted to correct the errors?

DAVID: […] However, all viruses, manufactured or natural, come with a mutation ability given by God. […]
And:
DAVID: Every complex organism can make simple adaptations.

dhw: So your God gave even complex organisms the autonomous ability to change their structure. How does that make it impossible for him to have given them the ability to make complex adaptations, even amounting to innovations (e.g. legs adapting themselves to life in the water and becoming flippers)?

DAVID: All we see, just to remind you, are minor adaptations. You admit major alterations require design. Design means a designer mind is at work.

Actually, I regard legs to flippers as major adaptations, but in any case that doesn’t answer the question. If organisms have the autonomous ability to adapt, how can you be so sure that they do not have the autonomous ability to innovate? Of course major alterations, just like minor alterations, require design, but that does not mean the different life forms do not have their own kind of mind (possibly designed by your God) to do their own designing.