Back to theodicy and David's theories (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell , Saturday, May 15, 2021, 18:36 (1078 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: All ecosystems play an enormous role in a stabilized ecology to support an enormous human population. 99% of all evolutionary forms are gone but required in the process of creating this giant bush of life in its interacting and interlocking forms. I view it as a magnificent plan by God to offer a stabilized system for all of current life forms to have a broad access for food.

dhw: Yes, the human population requires lots of ecosystems to sustain it. No, the 99% of ecosystems which supported all the life forms that have now disappeared and had no connection with humans were, in your own words, NOT necessary to support an enormous human population: “The current bush of food is NOW for humans NOW. There were smaller bushes in the PAST for PAST forms,” And “Extinct life has no role in current time.”

Both the statements are true and logically fit my theory. All lifeforms are connected by common descent, which is a continuum of emerging complexity.

dhw: See below for your God, the humanized “nice guy” (who designed deadly viruses and bacteria). See elsewhere for your agreement that your God possibly/probably has thought patterns similar to ours, and for the various human thought patterns that you attribute to him. This silly “humanization” argument remains the only objection you can find to my logical alternatives to your illogical theory.

I don't need to repeat your proposals for God's thought patterns. just mentioning you think He has to experiment is enough proof.

DAVID: I don't have to explain God's reasons!!! I accept His works, to which you give lip service, as usual, above in the bold.

dhw: His works (if he exists) are what we know. And the illogical reasons you give for the billions of years of works in the shape of ever changing ecosystems and life forms, 99% of which had no connection with humans, are 1) that all 99% were “part of the goal of evolving [= specially designing] humans” although they had no connection with humans and 2) “We have to eat!!!” although 99% of the food supplies had no connection with humans.

You want to jump from bacteria to now, skipping over 3.6 billion years of life's evolution. Loss of 99% out-of-date forms is a necessary consequence of the process

Theodicy
Needle design
dhw: I suspect there were other animals before us who had the privilege and pleasure of being infected by these bacteria so beautifully designed by your God, and you have not explained why a God who does everything “for the good” would have designed life forms whose purpose is to cause what we consider to be horrendous diseases.

DAVID: God gave us the brain to conquer them. Have you noticed, most humans die of old age, wearing out?

dhw: I don’t have the statistics, but quite apart from premature deaths caused by human greed, lust for power and sheer stupidity, I keep encountering and reading about premature deaths caused by disease and by natural disasters. For some reason these don’t seem to figure in your list of God’s works by which we are supposed to get to know him.

Bad news always makes the papers. In my medical experience, most folks just wear out.

DAVID (under “religions’ effects”): I was clear enough in my childhood thinking to recognize Bible stories about God as inventive 'stories' and God was a nice guy.

dhw: What a delightful “humanization”! And when you became a doctor and tried to help those who were not dying of old age but were dying or suffering because of the viruses and bacteria your God had designed so beautifully, I hope they were consoled by your reassurance that your humanized God is a “nice guy”.
(NB: I prefer to refrain from any such blanket "humanized" judgements, but confine myself to alternative theories concerning a possible God's possible nature.)

The viral, bacterial deaths were few among my old folks. And referring to God as a nice Guy is certainly using human terms, which is all we have. But my God doesn't have to experiment or create just for His own enjoyment.