Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, January 15, 2022, 08:42 (839 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: God changes the conditions. He is in control of all steps in evolution.

dhw: For a long time you dithered over whether God changed all the conditions, so it’s good to hear that you’ve now made up your mind. This does not alter the fact that you yourself agree that he changes the conditions before he designs the new species, and our dispute is over your previous claim that he designed new species in anticipation of changing conditions.

I realize now, however, that your new decision changes the argument. If God preprogrammed every single environmental change, global and local, and every single species 3.8 billion years ago, then of course you could argue that he designed all species in advance. We should simply forget your agreement that "you cannot design an organism dependent on oxygen if it isn't present", and "more oxygen allowed God to now design Cambrians". The "now" certainly doesn't fit if you're going to tell us that it was all designed 3.8 billion years ago.

DAVID: Both designs are coordinated, and again using my human brain point, it was set up hundreds of thousands of years prior to its full use, resultant complexification and shrinkage.

What was set up? Regarding the brain, I agree with you that the MECHANISM for change (i.e. for expansion and complexification) must have been present, and yes of course it was/is used with every new expansion and every new complexification as the brain responded/responds to every new requirement. Are you now saying that your God preprogrammed or dabbled every new idea or condition that required expansion or complexification, and continues to do so? Or has he left us to work out the ideas, and the mechanism to respond without him?

dhw: You have agreed that what preceded all these new concepts was the MECHANISM for complexification. I don’t know why you keep going back over the same discussion, unless it’s to distract attention from the fact that you now acknowledge that species are not designed in anticipation of new conditions but in response to them.

DAVID: What you left out is God coordinates His advances. He evolved the Earth He formed so it could accept the life He started, each step in its time.

If God exists, then I accept that he must have evolved the Earth so that it could be conducive to life. However, I find it difficult to believe that 3.8 billion years ago he preprogrammed every environmental change, every innovation, econiche, lifestyle, natural wonder etc. - especially when you say it was all for the sake of humans.

DAVID: I do not accept any of your illogical premise that my God is tunnel-visioned.

dhw: If he only has one goal (you say that all his designs are “part of the goal to evolve [=design] humans” and their food), then of course he’s tunnel-visioned. But your theory that he designed countless life forms and econiches that had no connection with humans is the exact opposite of tunnel-visioned, which is why your theory is illogical.

DAVID: Same tortured illogical complaint. The bush of life with many branches, the ends of which have no physical comparison to humans, are the food for all of life, a point you logically accept, and then illogically distort.

You are making the very point that renders your anthropocentric theory illogical. According to you, he designed ALL the life forms and branches and foods, most of which had no connection with humans, and yet the only life forms, branches and foods he wanted were those connected with humans! Stop dodging!

DAVID: God recognized all the many necessary steps in evolution to reach humans, and did them. Adler would be as puzzled as I am.

dhw: If your Adler is as logical a thinker as you say, I expect he would be just as puzzled as I am by a theory that has an all-powerful God pursuing his one solitary purpose of designing humans plus food by designing countless life forms and foods that had no connection with humans. However, you have told us that he does not even discuss your theory. Good for him.

DAVID: What IS Adler's point is the end result of humans proves God!!!

And that is not what we are arguing about!

DAVID: Adler fully accepts God evolved us and accepts the process as fact. Since in all of your study regarding God you have ignored folks like Adler, you obviously have a blind side that I am trying to pry open. I've even gotten you to take a squint at ID! Why not try all sides of the question? I started on the fence and with lots of reading climbed down, so it is possible.

You simply refuse to accept that our disagreement in all these discussions is NOT over the logic of the design argument as evidence for the existence of God, but over your dislocated theory concerning what you believe to have been your God’s one and only purpose (humans plus food) and what you believe to have been his method (to design countless life forms etc. that had no connection with humans). PLEASE stop dodging. You are simply taking us round in the same circles. You admit that you cannot explain this theory (you tell me to go and ask God to explain it), and that should be the end of this discussion.