Return to David's theory of theodicy;Plantinga & Raup (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, April 27, 2024, 16:18 (13 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: As with anyone, I can make my own theology and don't care if I don't exactly mirror every nuance of different religion's views.

dhw: No objection. I only object when your theories either make no sense to you, or contradict one another.

DAVID: I begin by accepting their basic God form as being all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. The rest follows. What gives you the right to complain? At least I believe.

dhw: What do you mean by “the rest follows”? How does it follow that an all-powerful, all-knowing God finds that he “has to” design and cull 99.9 species out of 100 that have no connection with his purpose, that an all-good God is to blame for creating bugs that kill millions of people, that a selfless, all-knowing God deliberately creates a system which he knows will result in millions of deaths, so that he and we can avoid boredom? I only complain about your illogicalities and contradictions.

An all-everything God is recognized generally as the God of the Western monotheistic religions. THE REST FOLLOWS!!! If He is everything, why evil, etc. follows. I introduced theodicy long ago to look at the problems an all-everything God presents. That God creates what He wishes to create by evolving them is obvious. He evolved humans, which means He 'wished' to create them, not 'has to' as you distort the concept of creation. Just as you distort the true meaning in Raup's statistics about required extinctions in evolution.

Double standards

DAVID: Exactly my point There are no established standards for who God is.

dhw: Correct, so stop pontificating about his omnipotence etc., and stop rejecting other people’s theories as “not worth using”, because – just like your own – they are not mainstream. According to you, not being mainstream is a reason for rejection, unless it's your non-mainstream theory.

Your same misuse of double standards. There are no standards about God!!! He can be anything or everything, whatever humans wish to make of Him.

DAVID: […]. I am not required to accept deism or progress theology. I have the right to reject any theology I don't like.

dhw: Agreed.

DAVID: Throwing two theories at me because you have reviewed them proves what! I am aware of them and totally unconvinced.

dhw: No problem.

DAVID: You are aware of all theology and reject it all. That is your prerogative.

dhw: I am not aware of ALL theology, and I do not reject all theology either. If God exists, it seems almost certain to me that some versions will be correct, but as you say, “there are no guidelines”. The only thing I am certain of is that he will not have attributes that contradict each other. See above for the now bolded examples relating to "the rest follows".

DAVID: You are using a double standard against me, aren't you?!

dhw: No. I am pointing out that your views are illogical and self-contradictory. Once more: A double standard is when you reject an argument for a particular reason (e.g. deism is not “worth using” because it is not mainstream), while at the same time you accept and defend a different argument, although the particular reason should also make you reject it. (e.g you defend your own version of panentheism, although it too is not mainstream). A similar example would be an atheist rejecting your faith in God because it not based on scientific fact, and then announcing that he has faith in chance as the creator of life, although his faith in chance is not based on scientific fact either. You’d leap on that as “double standards”, wouldn’t you? And that’s what you’ve done with non-mainstream deism and process theology.

You can't have it both ways. You agreed, I have the right to reject any theory. You are quibbling about my rejection of process theology and deism I gave in brief. In actuality that both are not mainstream is obvious. What I didn't say is I've previously studied both and rejected them on valid grounds, as I am allowed to reject any theism I don't personally like. Simply, if there are no known standards for God, there can be no double standards.

You have invented a strawman version of double standards, inventing them when they do not exist!!! You can sit on both sides of the fence, safely not required to find any standards. And free to pounce on anyone who makes choices, as you've done to me.