Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS ONE & TWO (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, May 26, 2023, 23:39 (342 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Stop distorting!! What I agreed to in the past is if your alternative God is accepted as highly humanized, what He does is logical. Not real support for Him.

dhw: I didn't say you supported it! And you always try to escape from the logic by exaggerating the “humanization”. Yes, all my alternatives are logical if you accept that God (if he exists) is not all-knowing, and as the debate on free will versus predestination shows, it is perfectly possible to believe in a God who does NOT know every outcome. It is also perfectly logical to believe that your God shares some of our human thought patterns and emotions, such as enjoying creating, being interested in what he creates, and enhancing the enjoyment by learning/discovering/ inventing new things. I would assume that such patterns are what is meant by his making us “in his own image”, since the latter is unlikely to refer to our physical appearance.

The God you present is hyper humanized, which you refuse to recognize. I base it on Adler's book, 'How to Think About God'. You can believe in your God if you wish, I can't. As for trying to compare us emotionally with God, We don't know how our concept of emotions translates to God's. I'll stick (per Adler)to the allegorical issue of the differences. Specifically, we may use the same words, but they do not have teh same meaning as applied to God.

dhw: You are totally at a loss to explain why, being all-powerful and all-knowing, he didn’t design us and our food directly, but you refuse to consider any theory that differs from your own.

DAVID: What I can't accept is a highly humanized God who is not all-knowing.

dhw: An immaterial, eternal, sourceless God who can design a universe can hardly be called “highly humanized” just because he enjoys getting new ideas, or conducting scientific experiments. I’m always surprised that you consider this to be more human and less godlike than a God who designs a messy, cumbersome and inefficient method to fulfil his one and only purpose.

An amazing difference in interpretation. I see God using a cumbersome system of creatiobn of His own choice, with the magnificent resultt of our brain, the most complex item in the universe!!!

DAVID: I used 'naturally' as 'expected' as shown by Raup. Repeating how wonderful your human God is will not convince anyone who believes.

dhw: As “expected” by whom? Who laid down the law that says: "If thou wishest to create one species plus its food, thou must design and then get rid of 99 species out of 100 that have nothing to do with the one species plus its food”? Why do you think my wonderfully efficient designer would be less convincing than your messy, cumbersome, inefficient version?

DAVID: Anyone who know Raup's work would understand.

dhw: Then please enlighten me. If your God is the first cause, why would he have designed a system that forced him to create 99 out of 100 species that were irrelevant to his purpose, although according to you he was perfectly capable of direct creation? Your answer is usually that I should ask God, because you can’t make any sense out of your theory either, but maybe Raup has told you.

Your response is non-sensical. I accept what God chooses to do without questioning it as you do. You want God perfectly explained, but Gos doesn't explain, He just does.

DAVID: As for which God to pick, the same wonderful diversity of life came from the evolutionary system they each used. Your guy bumbled and stumbled into humans, while my guy planned for them.

dhw: He “planned” for them by designing 99 out of 100 that had no connection with them, and he had to adapt his plans every time there was a change in environmental conditions (because he didn’t control these), and being all-knowing, he knew perfectly well that all of this was unnecessary because one day, when conditions were right, he would design our ancestors (plus food) from scratch. But you can’t see this as bumbling.

Not at all. God knew His goals and how to do it by His chosen method. Our brain is here, isn't it?