Back to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 12:10 (1344 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Preceding eliminated as same old repetition between us.

dhw: The “preceding” concerns your illogical argument (ignoring the new errors theory) that your all-powerful God had only one purpose in mind – to design H. sapiens – but directly designed millions of other now extinct life forms, econiches, lifestyles, natural wonders etc. (which had nothing to do with humans) before designing the only thing he wanted to design. You say they were all “part of the goal of evolving humans”, and when asked to explain how, you say that they provided food for the humans who did not yet exist, or that you can’t be expected to know God’s reasons for the illogical method you are imposing on him for achieving his goal. This problem lies at the heart of your personal theory of evolution, and is not eliminated by your saying that it is eliminated.

DAVID: I dropped it out because it is an never-ending argument to which we both have frozen positions. I believe God started this universe with a goal of producing human beings by evolving the universe, the Earth as the place. He then started life and proceeded to evolve us. Totally logical with the view God is in charge and created the history we all know. When you assume a so-called theistic position it is filled with humanizing reasons for God's actions. The personality of the God you imagine is never my very purposeful God who clearly knows His goals and acts to achieve them without spectacle, experimentation, changes of mind, etc.

And still you dodge the subject of our dispute. I don’t know why you keep doing it. You have told us over and over again that your all-powerful, always-in-total-control God started out with THE (not a) goal (not goals) of producing H. sapiens, but first he directly designed millions of extinct, non-human life forms, econiches, lifestyles and natural wonders that had nothing to do with the only life form (plus food supply) that he wanted to design. It is this combination of beliefs that makes no sense. My alternative theories – even you agree they are logical - present God as equally purposeful and also knowing his own goal(s). It is also senseless to dismiss logical theories because they “humanize” God when you agree that your God probably has thought patterns and attributes similar to ours.

dhw: I’m transferring the brain cells and plant immunity posts to this thread, as the subject is relevant both to your mixed-up views on evolution by direct design and by selected random mutations, and also to my theistic alternatives to your illogical theories.
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dhw: I regard these findings as support for the theory that cooperation between intelligent cells/cell communities is the key not only to brain expansion but also to the whole process of evolution. And to answer your usual question, their specific form of intelligence may have been designed by your God.

DAVID: And as usual I think God gave the cells all the instructions they needed to respond intelligently, with the appearance they are innately intelligent.

dhw: The only “instructions” you have ever come up with are in the form of a 3.8-billion-year-old computer programme for every possible cellular development in life’s history, or your God personally dabbling with the relevant cells. Which of these alternative methods do you think your God uses to direct the communication between the cells, or is it possible that he gave them the MEANS to communicate intelligently?

DAVID: Another repeated never-ending argument. The cells follow God's instructions from an old program or a new dabble. In my view He works either way, as I think of no other.

And so you have your God either preprogramming or directly dabbling millions and millions of non-human life forms, strategies etc. although from the very beginning the only life forms he wanted were H. sapiens and his food supply. On the errors thread, at least you have your God leaving some evolutionary developments to chance mutations (i.e. neither preprogrammed nor dabbled, but simply allowed to survive), but of course that also makes nonsense of your all-powerful, always-in-control, one-goal-only God who directly designed every life form etc. that ever existed "as part of the goal of evolving humans".