Evolution and humans: all over Africa (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Saturday, October 14, 2017, 15:15 (158 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Adler's statement is obviously true. God is NOT like us. I an only guess at His reactions to His own works. So I make human guesses, but I always carefully think, He is not human!

If God exists, of course he’s not human! I don’t imagine him as an old man with a beard. But if, as you keep telling us, our consciousness is part of his consciousness, and he wants a relationship with us, and he has purpose, and, as the Bible tells us, he made us in his image, it is far from improbable that our consciousness bears similarities to his consciousness. You have every right to make “human guesses”. So do I. You “carefully think”? You may be surprised to hear that I do too. Your careful thoughts do not fit the history we know. As you keep acknowledging, mine do.

Of course you carefully think. Of course His consciousness must be somewhat similar to ours. My theory fits the facts of history just as yours does. My view from purpose does not fit your concepts. So be it.

dhw: 3) Every multicellular organism, including apes, humans, whales, and weaverbirds appeared for no obvious reason, because bacteria have survived from the start. My hypothesis adds the drive for improvement to that for survival.

DAVID: Your statement about 'survival' is a suspect thesis. It is not proven. Complexification or your statement 'improvement' are more to the point.

dhw: You wrote: “evolution requires responses to challenges to survival”. I’m sorry you don’t agree with yourself. But I agree that ‘improvement’ is more to the point when it comes to innovations, though it is sometimes difficult to draw the line between the two. (Improvement can be related to chances of survival as well as to opportunities provided by environmental change.)

Your parenthetical sentence is right on point.

dhw: 5) The human brain is the most complex object in the world we know. (I’m afraid I don’t have access to the whole universe.) But that does not mean your God specially designed the eight stages of whale and the weaverbird’s nest in order to keep life going until he could produce it.
DAVID: It is obvious God uses evolutionary processes to achieve His goals.

dhw: If God exists, then of course you are right. The question mark is over your personal interpretation of his goals. If his prime goal was the production of the brain of Homo sapiens, why did he bother to design eight stages of whale and the weaverbird’s nest?

We back to arguing about balance of nature which you accept and reject at the same time.

DAVID: Everything we know about evolved from a beginning, even if we do not understand the beginnings of the universe or origin on life. Sorry you can't seem to see that. Evolution take time. Complexity of the brain implies purpose to me.

dhw: What on earth gives you the impression that I can’t see that there must have been a beginning? Or that evolution has taken 3.8 billion years so far (or whatever may be the true figure), no matter what its goal might be? It is the beginning that we can’t explain, and hence my openness to the possibility of a God. Complexity of the brain fits is perfectly well with the purpose of organisms to improve themselves.

And what gives inanimate organisms the ability to improve themselves?

DAVID: Faith may not be logical to you.

dhw: I explained to you why I do NOT admit that the purpose you extrapolate fits the history. You have no answers to my questions,

I have answers you do not accept, but satisfy me, which led to faith.

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