Innovation (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, May 05, 2013, 18:03 (4019 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: This is a great help to our understanding of each other. My only objection is to the word "preprogrammed", which suggests that he built into the very first organisms a programme for all the organs that would in due course lead to humans. -DAVID: In a way, yes, but I feel speciation requires dabbling.-Fine, but dabbling is the opposite of preprogramming.-dhw:You only need a few localized "savannah" disasters over millions of years to explain why there were no trees for apes to live in. What is your alternative?
 
DAVID: There have always been trees and savannahs close by. Just migrate to find them. You have not answered my speculation. Apes stayed up, we climbed down, all in the same geologic periods. Why?-"Always"? I know you're older than me, but I didn't know you were THAT old! How close is "close by"? It would depend on the scale of the disaster! Or possibly on the adventurousness of a particular group of primates, setting out to explore a different environment. Let me quote you: "All sides of the argument should admit, we don't know how species appear. Any proposal is pure supposition." One speculation is that localized environmental changes made it impossible or undesirable for our ancestors to go on living in trees, whereas in other areas during the same geological periods apes were able to continue their tree-living existence. Meanwhile, you have not answered my own question to you: "What is your alternative? That God decided to dabble with a few chosen apes in a few chosen places over a few million years?"
 
dhw: I have always accepted that a first cause of some type started everything. Nothing can come from nothing. But that doesn't make our three concepts any the more believable. That's why your choice ultimately depends on faith.-DAVID: We agree on first choice [sic], but you will accept nothing to have a belief in. Fair enough. The picket fence forever!-(You meant first cause ... we certainly don't agree on first choice!) Forever? Probably. But I'm having fun up here.