Innovation (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, May 06, 2013, 18:03 (4018 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Your universal consciousness is a single entity which has been aware of itself for ever and ever and has created the universe and every form of life. Is this what Sheldrake believes? I can't see any contradiction between panpsychism and species consciousness. Please enlighten me.-DAVID: Read Sheldrake please. His morphogenic fields have to do with phenotype guidance in embryo formation. And his species consciousness implied universal consciousness levels as I have previously explained. Panpsychism is somehow having consciousness affecting cells and reaching into cells. But as I have explained to you, over and over, cells are automatons.-In my panpsychist scenario, innovation is caused by intelligent energy within the genome responding to changes in the environment. How does that differ from "phenotype guidance in embryo formation"? And are you telling us that Sheldrake's species consciousness implies your own particular "universal consciousness" (i.e. God)? N.B. Sheldrake also applies his principle to inorganic matter, though "the whole concept of fields in general is a very difficult thing to grasp". So is "intelligent energy", and so is your "God"! My version of panpsychism certainly has consciousness "affecting cells", but not "reaching into cells": the consciousness is already within cells (or in the genome which is within cells). Whereas on the contrary, your own brand of "intelligent energy", i.e. God, has to reach into cells whenever he starts dabbling!-dhw: [...] intelligent energy is the force within materials that enables organisms to innovate. Your God is first-cause energy which has been intelligent for ever and ever, so define him and it! The concept I'm proposing also implies structure, but instead of this being imposed from outside by a single inventor, it is created from within.-DAVID: Just admit that the 'innovation force' of each cell is in the genome, present from the beginning of life and we might be able to agree.-If internal "intelligent energy" functions by working from within the genome, that's fine with me. You complained that my concept lacked structure, and I have explained that instead of structure being imposed from outside by your one-and-only Creator, it is created by intelligent energy within. A structure is a structure is a structure.